Pumpkinhead (1988)

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome, listener, to the return slot. [00:00:09] Speaker B: A. [00:00:10] Speaker A: Podcast recorded in the basement of our video store. After hours, when the doors are locked, the vhs cassettes are rewound, and the moon is glowing pale blue on a brisk and breezy autumn night, we like to hang out in the basement, light a pumpkin scented candle, crack open a seasonal drink, and discuss our beloved genre, horror. Every episode, we invite you to join us for a frosty libation as we discuss a film selected from one of our painstakingly curated subsections of the video store. Now, Chris, for anyone uninitiated or unlucky enough to grow up without an independent video store, can you shed some light on this for me, please? For us? For the listener? [00:00:55] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. Thanks, Michelangelo. You know, once upon a time, if it was a Friday night, the place to be was the local independent video store. Some of them served more as replicas of your bigger names, like a Hollywood video or a blockbuster. And sometimes they were more of a dingy hoarders basement. But no matter what, these shops were dominated by racks filled with tricks and treats that you could stare at and lose yourself. These were safe places where you could search for that perfect rental and, and sometimes drive your parent to madness by how long it was taking to make your choices. The video store served as the testing ground for finding oneself and sharpening your taste via the shelves of amazing movies, often with the assistance of the passionate but poorly paid clerk. Most importantly for our conversation, the thrills and titillations of the horror section served as a test of mental fortitude or a spark to become a passionate flame. So welcome in, friend. Please walk past the faded red velvet rope down the stairs and join us as we ruminate on a selection for tonight's subsection. [00:01:57] Speaker A: Beautifully put, Chris. Beautifully put. I'm gonna warn the listener, this is a hangout drink and talk with friends about horror movies podcast. You know, what are the, what do these horror films tell us about ourselves, our lives, our relationships? How do we see ourselves reflected in these stories? And how can we better understand ourselves and each other through these films? So, yeah, we probably will talk about ourselves as much as we talk about our film tonight. Now, before we get to tonight's film, the Chris, what's like, the basement looks great. Could you. For the listener who can't see what you've, you've. It's a Halloween. Oh, yeah, it's seasonal, right? We're decorating the store. You took it upon yourself to decorate the basement. What do we have here? [00:02:57] Speaker B: Can you describe, you know, I was driving in my car and some idiot just left these, like, stalks in the middle of a field, so, like, I just took them. Now, admittedly, I did not know that. Evidently there's corn spiders, so there is an awful lot of spiders over there, and they do bite. I have a lot of bites. I'm in a lot of pain right now, but you're welcome. [00:03:27] Speaker A: I'm gonna have to cancel the recording tonight. The constant listener will know that I have arachnophobia. I don't like this, but that's a great name for a film. Actually, corn spiders. Didn't know that was a thing. Another thing to be terrified of. [00:03:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, the, you know, there's spiders everywhere, but don't worry about that. [00:03:45] Speaker A: Let's talk now, Chris, what section do we find ourselves in? Oh, yeah, right now. Oh, this kind of goes along with the corn stalks. [00:04:04] Speaker B: Yeah, this is definitely. This is. [00:04:09] Speaker A: Sorry, Edit, man. You don't have it in front of you, do you? You son of a bitch. Well, okay, hold on, I got, I got you, buddy. Now, Chris. Chris has been with us a little while, and Mickey's my usual. The co owner of the video store, he's gone serving the country right now. And Chris took it upon himself to create a new section in the video store specifically for the Halloween season. And it blows my mind that you don't remember it off the top of your head. And it's harvest revenge society ellipses. That's where you walk in. Ellipses. [00:04:52] Speaker B: Do you not remember ellipses? [00:04:55] Speaker A: Jesus Christ. Harvest revenge society ellipses reap what you sow. Obviously, you felt very passionate about this section, and it's near and dear to your heart. Speaking of Lou losing your memory, what are we having to drink tonight? Did you make a spooky cocktail for this beautiful autumn close to Halloween evening? [00:05:22] Speaker B: Oh, I did, buddy. And, you know, again, it's the Halloween season. We gotta go to a new level. This is game time. You know, we're just, we're in pregame for eleven months out of the year where this is, this is the zone. So we're gonna go all out. So this is a little bit of a complicated drink. So. So bear with me here. But this is, uh, I'm gonna call it Ed Harley's folly. I like, I like, I like folly. And this takes some work. The day before, you're gonna drink it. So the day before, you're gonna make some brown butter washed whiskey. Uh, so in case, if you're familiar, you make a little brown butter. You just kind of put some butter in a pan on a low, medium heat, get a nice little brown caramelization going on. It smells a little nutty. And you're gonna put that in some whisking, you know, let it sit overnight until that it's called a fat washing on the whiskey. And it's going to give it some nice, very smooth, creamy mouthfeel to it. It's going to give it a little bit of that sweetness from the brown, but it's going to be delicious. So you're going to do that, jar it up overnight. And then also you're going to make a little syrup, this little pumpkin head syrup, gonna be maple syrup, cinnamon, clove, nutmeg, a little vanilla extract, some sea salt, and some canned pumpkin pie mix. You're gonna put that in a pan, you're gonna simmer it for about 20 minutes, strain it out and bottle it for the next day as well. So how we make our drink, we're gonna make 2oz of that brown butter whiskey, a half ounce of our pumpkin head syrup, two cherries, a dash of orange bitters, and a splash of soda water to give it a little of that bayou, eerie fog going on. [00:07:00] Speaker A: That sounds amazing. And again, I think if you add some dry ice to that, gonna look cool. We should really do, I don't know how safe that is. We should do just a little bit of research on this. Um, that sounds absolutely delicious. Uh, and what kind of glass are you drinking that out of for the listener? [00:07:18] Speaker B: Oh, just a basic rocks glass. I ain't fancy. Ed Harley doesn't need anything fancy. [00:07:24] Speaker A: You could have lied. You could have lied and said it was a mason jar. You could have lied and said it was a pumpkin shaped receptacle of some kind. [00:07:33] Speaker B: Oh, like a candle holder? [00:07:36] Speaker A: Like a candle holder. There's still a lot of candle in there. It's fine. [00:07:41] Speaker B: My mouth's pretty. Michelangelo, what are you having tonight? [00:07:48] Speaker A: Um, so I'm doing. I'm doing a flight. Oh, I'm doing a flight because I can't decide on one thing. Okay. So it's my, it's my, uh, Halloween flight. And as you can see, what I did is I got a bunch of these little mason jars and I painted them to look like candy corns. [00:08:09] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:10] Speaker A: And lead paint. So it's safe. [00:08:12] Speaker B: Oh, perfect. Yeah. [00:08:15] Speaker A: And I'm starting out with Jack's Abbey copper legend. It's their Oktoberfest beer. It's, it's solid. It's very drinkable. It's, it's, it's delicious. And then I'm going to follow that up with citizen cider's baker's dozen cider donut cider. It's delicious. It's like drinking some cider donuts. And then I'm going to follow that up with Hudson North Cider Company's toasted pumpkin cider, which is absolutely delicious. And then I'm going to finish off with some kraft artisan meadery's apple crumble. Now, we're not sponsored by any of these companies. I would love to be. They can, but. And I had. I have. I got a sweet tooth tonight because, you know, it's Halloween. It's like, I want to. I want to drink my candy. [00:09:05] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:06] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [00:09:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:07] Speaker A: And I find it's like, I love searching out pumpkin ales. [00:09:12] Speaker B: Uh huh. [00:09:14] Speaker A: Right. But I think you agree with me here. Most of them are just not very good. [00:09:19] Speaker B: It's hard. [00:09:19] Speaker A: They're not very enjoyable to find a good one. [00:09:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:21] Speaker A: Uh, but I find that the ciders and the meads, uh, really shine this time of year, and they sort of, like. They just go. It's that, like, sweet tooth thing, you know what I mean? [00:09:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. [00:09:32] Speaker A: I mean, like, pumpkin ciders are great. [00:09:35] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm sure that, like, you know, uh, sugar content's got to be pretty high on those things. I don't know, but, yeah. Sounds like a decade. [00:09:42] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that's why. That's why it's just a flight. Yeah, I'm not drinking, like, a can each of these things. [00:09:47] Speaker B: Yeah, but you got, like, three flights behind it, though, so, like, you're going on, like, three flights tonight. It's all the same things. I think. [00:09:52] Speaker A: I'm not gonna get up that flight of stairs. I've been meaning to ask you before we get to the movie developments with your Halloween village. Chris. Chris's. Chris is settling into the middle part of his life, and he is building a miniature Halloween village, or collecting, rather. [00:10:16] Speaker B: Um, Halloweentown is expanding. Uh, we have annexed, uh, the. The nearby table. Uh, to. To spread. Uh, it went to a board vote, but, of course, I was the only board member, so it was a pretty easy pass. Uh, and it's, uh, it's spreading every year. I'm, uh, I'm spending more money than I should on small houses and to take up a whole bunch of space in our, uh, dining room. [00:10:43] Speaker A: So, you know, during a housing crisis with so many people homeless, you're taking up space in your house for small houses? [00:10:50] Speaker B: That, and I'm mocking them because it's like a toy version of the house, too. So it's like, I'm going to put a little house inside of my house, but it's going great. [00:11:01] Speaker A: It's. I love those things. They're amazing. It's. It's definitely one of those things. When you're an apartment renter in a big city, you don't have space for things like that. [00:11:11] Speaker B: It's true. [00:11:13] Speaker A: I envy it. [00:11:13] Speaker B: Your sole reason to buy a house. So you can buy little houses as a decoration. [00:11:18] Speaker A: Like buy little houses and fill them up. Yeah, exactly. So tonight on this special spooky celebratory samhain celebration. What's another word for celebration? I can use the festivity festivities. Get your purple gels and wind machines ready because we're talking about FX master artist Stan Winston's directorial debut, 1988 or 89. We'll get to that later, maybe Pumpkinhead. [00:11:54] Speaker B: Woo. [00:11:56] Speaker A: Now, Chris, you chose both of our films that we've been talking about in the harvest revenge society. Reap what you sow. We did dark knight, the scarecrow. That episode's out. Go listen to it if you haven't. And pumpkin head. So why. Why pumpkin head? And what's your, like, history or relationship with pumpkin head? [00:12:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I saw pumpkin head a really long time ago. Like, I was probably a teenager, which I feel like it's common. My answer for a lot of these things. And I feel like it's kind of lived on in my head, uh, through a little bit of, like, some of the pop culture kind of pieces. Uh, like, for instance, uh, the misfits had a song called Pumpkin Head that's kind of like telling the story. [00:12:43] Speaker A: I was gonna ask you about that. [00:12:44] Speaker B: Yeah, there's like. And, like, you know, you think it's brought up in pop culture? I've never seen any of the sequels, so I am sure that those are not that great, but I doubt it. Maybe they are. I don't know. Have you seen any? [00:12:57] Speaker A: I got some. I got some info for you on that. [00:13:01] Speaker B: But, you know, I want. I mean, a part of wanting to do this is because of the fact that I haven't seen it in so long. And also, too, it fits that. Like, it's got a heavy, you know, Halloween vibe. I mean, beyond the name, but of course, like, it's got that, like, the rural, like, you know, like this, like, dark force that's happening, that's coming in a rural area that I feel like I tie into a lot of the Halloween season. And it's got Lance Hendrickson, which is always a plus. [00:13:35] Speaker A: That's always a plus. [00:13:37] Speaker B: I forgot about how many Lance Hendrickson moments are in this film. You know what I mean? On a rewatch, I was like, oh, shit. Yeah, but. And I wanted to tell the tale of revenge. This is a revenge time of year, Michelangelo. We're gonna get our. We're gonna get ours. [00:14:00] Speaker A: We're skipping. We're skipping tricks and treats, and we're going straight to revenge. [00:14:06] Speaker B: What about. What about you? I mean, what's your history with it? We never really talked too much about pumpkin head in the past. [00:14:12] Speaker A: You know, pumpkin Head was something that was, like, within the last ten years was the first time I ever saw it. I was aware that it existed, right. But I never saw it. And then I believe it's. At the time, they were scream Factory. But Shout Factory has a 2014 and a 2023 Blu ray 4k ultra HD release with, like, tons of special features. [00:14:44] Speaker B: Really? [00:14:44] Speaker A: Like, so many. There's documentaries and commentaries and interviews and, like, if you were lucky enough to order it in time, you could have received a limited edition poster that came with it. I mean, you know, shout Factory is awesome, and they released tons of awesome things, but this was something I saw on the shelves a lot in VHS form, as a kid wandering into the horror section, too afraid to actually watch them, but to absorb them through the VHS box art. And I just bought it sight unseen because it's like, it's Stan Winston, you know what I mean? You know, you're gonna get something cool, at the very least from a special effects makeup point of view, for sure. And this movie definitely delivers on that. And I saw it. I enjoyed it a lot, and. Yeah. So I was glad you decided that you wanted to talk about it because I never really talked about it with many people. It's a little. It's. We talk a lot about, like, cult films, and this is. I think this is definitely one of them, for sure. [00:16:03] Speaker B: It's very well known. But I feel like, to your point, it's not like, something that, like, you're not gonna get a lot of, like, glowing write ups about pumpkin head. Outside of, like, you know, niche areas, that type of thing. I don't feel like it's something that is a very populous. [00:16:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Talked about film. [00:16:22] Speaker A: If you're a horror fan and a special effects fan, you obviously know this and you love it, but, like, yeah, outside, you know, I just don't. I don't see a lot discussed on it, so I'm, like, excited to talk about it tonight. Now, it's based on a poem. Did you do any research? [00:16:39] Speaker B: I did not, by the way. [00:16:40] Speaker A: Okay, great. So let me know if you know, if you, if you know any of this already. But it's based on a poem from the same name by Ed Justin. And the screenplay is written by Mark Patrick Carducci and Gary Garnini. I'm probably saying his wrong, his name wrong. I'm gonna say a lot of people's names wrong. But the original concept Garnini created in the seventies and he developed it as a project called the Seven gargoyles of Satan. And it was a backwoods tale, seven sins, seven demons, which could be summoned by an individual to help achieve whatever that one of the seven deadly sins. And then I, uh, uh, de Laurentiis got his hands on this hero and, uh, uh, Stan Winston ended up, uh, uh, taking the helm as a director for this. And, uh, interestingly enough, Dino de Laurentiis did not like the final product of this film. He had it re edited. And the legend has it that, uh, Winston's team went dumpster diving to recover what they cut out. And out of what they were able to recover, at least 10% of that, around 10%, was never, was lost forever, really. Right. And why more people don't talk about this, I think, and why it's not more well known in the annals of like your classic franchise horror films, is that de Laurentiis company deal, de Laurentiis Entertainment Group, they began to Plummet and eventually would go out of business in 89. And this was made in like 87. It was supposed to come out and maybe it was 86. Anyways, the point is, this was in production and being released in the mitt in like the, the chunk of that company, like going out of business. So it ended up getting shelved for a year, then released, but with a limited release because United, no United Artists picked this up. But they also released another film that October called Child's Play, which was like, did gangbusters. And they didn't want to cannibalize their profits on child's play. So they like, they basically went even, huh. You know, on the, it made like a little bit of a profit, but was considered kind of a failure by them. And this was made for like less than $3 million. And it was the same crew that had just made predator the year before with like $18 million. And like, you see, I don't know how you feel, but you see every single penny. [00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:29] Speaker A: On the screen for sure. [00:19:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, like, I get how it could be a little bit of a cheaper production because they're not. They're not going anywhere like, crazy, you know, set wise or anything like that. There's a lot of, like, you know, empty fields and stuff like that. I'm sure they had to probably build all the, like, houses and stuff like that. I doubt they were able to find shacks. [00:19:50] Speaker A: They. They built all that stuff, and they would. So, like, when Ed drives into the. What are their name? The Wallaces property. Right. The. The shacks or the houses in the foreground or the background are miniatures. They're not full size. [00:20:12] Speaker B: That makes sense. [00:20:13] Speaker A: And they use, like, you know, they use, you know, basic mathematics and science to sort, you know, give you the illusion. [00:20:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:20] Speaker A: And, like, that's what they were doing the whole time, building depth. [00:20:22] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:20:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead. [00:20:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:29] Speaker B: Well, no, I guess, yeah. You had asked a question last week about dark knight, the scarecrow that I feel like is really, like. It's kind of. I feel like, pretty applies almost a lot more into this one, even. I felt like dark knight, the scarecrow of, like, what? Like, what era is this supposed to be? You know what I mean? Like. [00:20:48] Speaker A: Oh. Like, non, like, I think it sort of falls into the. From yesteryear fable, like, out of time, but, like, heavily influenced by, you know, I guess, early 19th century or 20th century, rather. [00:21:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:06] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [00:21:06] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I mean, like, Wallace's kids are so, like, you know, just dusty and, like, wearing, like, very put together clothes and stuff like that. [00:21:17] Speaker A: They look. They look absolutely like it's like overkill. I think it's a little. [00:21:22] Speaker B: It's a little much. Yeah, it's. They look like they're at the dust bowl. [00:21:27] Speaker A: There is. I had a note on this, too. [00:21:32] Speaker B: But, yeah, I feel like. I feel like it's. I enjoy it, but at the same time, I feel like it's almost like there's Wallace's, like, kids that look like it's, like, dust bowl era. There's, you know, Ed Harley and his kid, which are like, just kind of like, almost like simple farmers that look a little bit more modern. And then, of course, you do have, like, the city folks, of course, the teenagers that'll get killed. And, like, the car, the corvette and stuff like, that's very eighties. [00:21:56] Speaker A: Oh, they're right out of the eighties. Yeah. [00:21:58] Speaker B: There's, like, three time section groups that are, like, running into each other, you know? [00:22:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I like it. It works. [00:22:05] Speaker B: I like it, too. I just think it's funny. [00:22:08] Speaker A: But, like, the Wallace kids definitely have a Dorothea lang vibe. If you know who she is? [00:22:16] Speaker B: I don't. [00:22:17] Speaker A: She's a famous photographer who captured sort of, like, the Great Depression dust bowl era. You know what I mean? You look at those photos, and they are not as dirty as these kids are. And did you notice one of those kids, the. One of the little girls, the Wallace kids, is blossom. [00:22:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Me, I'm a Maya. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:22:44] Speaker A: Who's terribly mispronouncing. [00:22:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Jeopardy. Yeah, yeah. No, I saw that on IMDb, and I thought that was funny. It's always nice to see, like, you know, those, like, first child actor roles that then they grow on the bigger stuff in years in the future. [00:23:00] Speaker A: Yes. Still working. [00:23:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:02] Speaker A: Child actors still working. [00:23:04] Speaker B: Still. [00:23:05] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Now, would you be surprised to know that Stan Winston didn't actually design pumpkinhead? [00:23:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Who did? [00:23:14] Speaker A: Right. You think you. You would think he did, but. So at this point, his studio is, like, doing gangbusters, and he just, like, apparently he was, like, the nicest boss ever. Right? He just. He was a shepherd of, like, talent and goodwill, and he taking over the responsibility. I mean, he originally approached to create the creature for it, but decided he wanted to direct it. He handed over all that stuff to Alec Gillis, Shane Mahan, John Rosengrant, and Tom Woodruff junior. And Woodruff is the guy who actually is in the suit as pumpkin head. Okay, so, like, those are the people who created pumpkin head. [00:24:02] Speaker B: Those are all aliases for Stan Winston, right? [00:24:05] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. And this. I don't know how, like, did you ever watch Jim Henson's storyteller series? [00:24:14] Speaker B: Hell, yeah. [00:24:15] Speaker A: This reminds me of one of those episodes, but, like, a full length, like, rated r version. [00:24:23] Speaker B: Well, so, actually, let me ask you about that. How did you watch this? [00:24:29] Speaker A: Oh, I bought the Blu ray. [00:24:33] Speaker B: Okay. Physical. So I watched it streaming, and it was interesting because it almost like it was a stream that looked like it had the small cuts put in place for commercial breaks, but then, like, without commercial breaks, it was weird. [00:24:50] Speaker A: I think that's just how it is. [00:24:52] Speaker B: Really? [00:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:54] Speaker B: That's odd to me. [00:24:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:56] Speaker B: I just assumed that was a post. A post edit thing that might have. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Been, like, de Laurentiis is doing. You know what I mean? [00:25:03] Speaker B: Maybe that's the, like, the. The missing footage would be more like the, like, linking pieces that would make it a little bit of a smoother transition between scenes. [00:25:11] Speaker A: And, I mean, most. Most people's experience with this is, like a television edit. [00:25:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:16] Speaker A: Is like PBS or AMC or whatever. [00:25:20] Speaker B: I was a lot younger. I'm sure that's how I watched it. [00:25:27] Speaker A: Also called vengeance the demon. [00:25:30] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:25:31] Speaker A: And then real quick, just to talk about the home video market, it became a cash cow on the home video market. And then eventually, in 94, they made a direct to video sequel. Who? Jeff Beck or Jeff Beck? Jeff Bird directed it. So if you're a fan of the stepfather two, or Texas Chainsaw Massacre three, you might like it. It's a, it's, it's, it's a bee creature movie that is silly and fun. Uh, it's a party watch. Uh, I think it's worth your time to check it out. And it has the Necronomicon in it. [00:26:16] Speaker B: Of course it does. [00:26:17] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [00:26:17] Speaker B: I used to just throw that into everything to try to give it a little more credence or a little more, like, cache. [00:26:22] Speaker A: Jason goes to hell, got a little cameo of it, and, but Jeff Burr, you know, I end up going down these, like, rabbit holes of information, and so I'm gonna get us back on track momentarily. But he made a movie about an Elvis impersonator losing his mind, and it has a very young Quentin Tarantino in a small acting role as an orderly in the mental institution. And the. It's Eddie Presley. Is that the name of it, though? I can't, I didn't write it down. [00:27:01] Speaker B: That's also. [00:27:03] Speaker A: I know it. It's, it's black and white. Looks really cool. And then in 95, he directed a movie called Night of the Scarecrow. [00:27:12] Speaker B: Oh, I feel like I haven't watched that, but I feel like I've seen that, like, the box cover, like that video. [00:27:17] Speaker A: It looks, I mean, you got, you can't, it's hard to find. It's obscure, and it stars Steven Root, Bruce Glover and John Hawks, if you know who those people are. Yeah, yeah. John Hawks, Kenny Powers brother. He's bound and down. He's been, you know, winter. Winter bone. And he's just, you know, perfect storm. [00:27:39] Speaker B: All over the character actors. So let's dive in. [00:27:46] Speaker A: Let's jump in the movie. Now, who do you, who do you prefer on Halloween, pumpkin head or Sam from trick or treat as just a rules. Who's, whose rules do you like? [00:27:59] Speaker B: Whose rules do I. So wait, so we're just talking about. [00:28:01] Speaker A: The rules, the rules, just as, like, an entity? [00:28:04] Speaker B: Okay. I think I like Sam because Sam's a little bit more of an independent thinker. He's not just like he's gonna get summoned by some hurt soul. [00:28:15] Speaker A: Oh, no. Yeah. Sam's like a God. [00:28:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:18] Speaker A: You know, I mean, he's a spirit. [00:28:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess that's. So you're kind of, like, getting to something that I feel like. And it's not like a failing of the movie or anything, but, like, one of those, like, you watch it, and you're kind of like. So I guess I'm curious, like, what do you think? Like, how exactly does pumpkin head function? [00:28:38] Speaker A: Like, we've got the base I want to get to. That's one of the questions I wanted to ask kind of at the end. Like, or, you know, why don't you, like. Cause I wanted to ask what it all means. So I guess that's a good setup. It's like, how do you think he works? So, like, how do you think he works? [00:28:56] Speaker B: Yeah, right? Like, okay, so, like. Like, there's the base factors of, like, what we know, right, of, like, okay. He can only be, like, rebirthed based upon these actions taken upon, like, you know, a hurt soul. Kind of, like, you know, calling upon tumulus. [00:29:11] Speaker A: A tumulus stands in the midst of a primordial pumpkin necropolis. [00:29:16] Speaker B: What you said. [00:29:19] Speaker A: But I wrote that. [00:29:20] Speaker B: It's good. It's good. [00:29:21] Speaker A: Thank you. Very pretentious. [00:29:23] Speaker B: But, like, okay, well, first off, does pumpkin head even, like, does he, like, stalk, like, a hunter prey situation, or does he just kind of show up? Because I feel like the film kind of shows us both sides of that. You know what I mean? Like, he's kind of, like, seeming like, I'm gonna walk after you guys. And then sometimes he's just like, hey, I'm here. [00:29:44] Speaker A: He's so. I have. I have a note on this, and I can never. I'm always like, okay, so pumpkin head. Okay, right? He has. He's. He's. He's a sassafras. He's a sassy. He's a sassy guy. I think he has. He. There's, like, comedy to his kills. He has a sense of humor. I think he. I think he would really get along with Freddy Cougar. I think they, like, they're not too far apart from each other. I think if, like, I wrote. I wrote this note down, and of course, I can't find it, but Winston was like, I want pumpkin head. He's like an angry child playing with dolls. And to me, he's like, if Jaws and Freddy had a baby, and then a xenomorph and a gremlin had a baby, and those babies had a baby right together, and it was a golem, it would be pumpkin head. [00:30:48] Speaker B: Wow. [00:30:50] Speaker A: Cause he's kind of. [00:30:51] Speaker B: He's gotta he's got a drooling problem. Guy can't stop fucking. [00:30:57] Speaker A: He's got a drooling. Yeah. [00:30:58] Speaker B: And his big move is, like, I'm gonna grab you by the throat and, like, lift you up, or grab you by the feet and lift you up. He's a big lifter you up kind of guy. [00:31:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And, like, you know, he will get to the. They're not teens. They gotta be in their, they're, like yuppies. They're out of towners. You know, city folk. City folk. Maggie, I think. Is it Maggie? No. Who's the christian one that makes it? See, this is the problem with. Okay. This is one of the problems I have with the film is, like, this group of young people, like, outside of the brothers Joel and Steve. It's hard to, like, the women have no personalities, really. They're just kind of, like, accessories. It was, you know what I mean? They. [00:31:55] Speaker B: It was Maggie. [00:31:56] Speaker A: Like, I. [00:31:57] Speaker B: Sorry. But, yes, I do agree. Yeah. They are, like, pretty Maggie. [00:32:00] Speaker A: Maggie. Maggie really makes this whole thing about her in a very funny way to me because she's, like, so traumatized. It's like a little kid died. You know? Joel's being a dick, right. And it's just like, all this stuff is happening. She's just, like, making it about herself. And then, like, the, the, you know, pumpkin head, like, carving cross in her forehead. He has a sense of humor, you know? [00:32:27] Speaker B: Well, I kind of wondered a little bit about that. Right. Cause, okay. Like, you see her in the scene beforehand. She's got the cross necklace and pumpkin head does that thing to her. And then later in the abandoned church, there's, like, the scene of pumpkin head, like, really smashing the cross thing. So is it just like, a whole, like, thing of, like, well, he's a demon, so he aims. Hates that Christianity stuff. You know what I mean? And it's like, a little bit mocking in that situation. Like him doing that to Maggie. Like, carving the little cross on her head. [00:32:54] Speaker A: Yeah. They think they'll find some sort of solace in religion. Bunt, who's really good. I think he's really good in this. He's in society, the actor, he brings them to this hallowed ground, thinking maybe that they might be safe there. Who is he? [00:33:13] Speaker B: Society. [00:33:15] Speaker A: He's just in society. I didn't have time to look it up too much, but he's, he's, he's got a huge list of, like, b horror film tits. Um, also, speaking of familiar people, uh, uh, Chris, the guy who plays Chris is Jeff east. He plays the young Clark Kent in the Superman movie with Chris Ruiz. [00:33:36] Speaker B: Yes. That is why he was familiar. [00:33:39] Speaker A: Steve, Joel's brother. He's in slumber party master, too. The kid in the very beginning, who plays young ed. Hardly. Lance, Lance's character. He's the confederate kid in the Lost Boys. [00:33:53] Speaker B: No shit. [00:33:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Fucking the dog. Mushroom is. The dog's name is Mushroom. It's gypsy in the film, she or he was in Gremlins. [00:34:08] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:34:08] Speaker A: As Billy's dog. Yeah, yeah. They're all over the place here. Yeah. [00:34:13] Speaker B: That's wild. [00:34:14] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's. It's. It's a good. It's. It's. It's. It's like. I think it's a good cast. I don't think that the. The young people are very well developed outside of Joel. [00:34:27] Speaker B: I kind of like Chris. I feel like he has something. You know what I mean? Like, with the whole scene with him, like, I feel like he's trying to, like. You know what I mean? Like, he's trying to take care of his brother, but at the same time, he knows that he's a fucking asshole and doing the wrong thing. And then, you know, he's trying to, like, almost like the awkwardness, that scene with him and Lance Hendrickson, whenever Lance Henderson comes back and sees that, you know, his son's dead, and it's almost like this unverbal moment. Like, it's awkward. [00:34:51] Speaker A: Well, that's. That's not Chris. [00:34:53] Speaker B: Oh. Do I have it said wrong? [00:34:55] Speaker A: That's. That's Steve. [00:34:56] Speaker B: Oh, okay. My bad. Steve. [00:34:58] Speaker A: Steve. Steve or scratch. Yeah, yeah. [00:34:59] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:35:00] Speaker A: I mean, yeah, the look. The look he gives him. [00:35:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:35:03] Speaker A: He's like. He's, like, trying to. You know, what can I do? [00:35:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:06] Speaker A: You know what I mean? He just gives him that look. [00:35:08] Speaker B: I thought he was good, but. Yeah, but I do agree, though. Like, the. The women characters. And then I guess Chris. Chris is the third male, then. Yeah, because he's the one who lives at the end, but, yeah, he kind of doesn't it. [00:35:20] Speaker A: Does he live. This is the thing. I kind of like. [00:35:23] Speaker B: I kind of felt like. [00:35:24] Speaker A: But, yeah, a problem for me with this is. Is it's. It's a little boring to me. It's a little boring. I love it. I love this film. It's a little. It's a little boring. It's a very short film, and I think you'd probably still make it shorter. And I like Stan Winston. There are so many things he can do well, but I think one thing he couldn't do well is develop the story in a way in the performances that made me feel more tied to the characters and what was happening. He's relying a lot on Lance Hendrickson's performance, which is great. And I think in a director who is more used to working with actors would be a phenomenal performance. I think you see the bare bones of, like, a good actor, and it just goes to show you how much a really good editor and director does in order to enhance those performances. He was, and he was all out on this. He was like, he put in fake teeth. He, like, found all those silver coins. He found them all himself. He helped set, decorate. And speaking of time period, that's a world War two shotgun, apparently. And, you know, it starts out he's got that flamethrower. This is what makes me puts it into a certain time period for me where it's like, did he serve in World War two, or did his father serve in World War two? And, like, they kept this flamethrower because. Do you know any farmers with flamethrower? You grew up in farm country, dude. Is that. Is that a normal thing farmers have? [00:37:09] Speaker B: I mean, like, I've heard. I personally know, but I've heard of farmers having that because I know that some people do, like, they do, like, you know, crop rotational. They'll burn off sections of it, I guess. I don't know if you really be a flamethrower, though, so I I don't know. That does seem like a. [00:37:25] Speaker A: But you got short as they seem when you have. [00:37:27] Speaker B: Yeah, let's just agreement on that, right? [00:37:31] Speaker A: If you're that lean, you gotta show off a little something some. [00:37:33] Speaker B: I know, but he's kind of bending over in a weird way that makes his stomach look a little funny. Whenever he's shirtless, I feel like when he's washing his hands, I was like, I feel like that's not really just one of those things that you don't do whenever, you know, I mean, like, you kind of look a little funny whenever you're, like, shirtless or naked kind of thing. It's like the Jerry Seinfeld episode about the girlfriend that's always naked. The cleaning. It's like, you know, naked's great, but sometimes some of the actions. [00:37:55] Speaker A: Speaking of Seinfeld, John D. Equanto, who plays Joel, was on Seinfeld. Yeah, he's in the Calzone episode. [00:38:03] Speaker B: That's right. [00:38:05] Speaker A: But he went all out. Lance Hendrickson went all out, and he was. He was sort of, like, at a. Apparently he was at a crossroads where he was like, okay, if I don't achieve what it is that I want to achieve artistically on this project, then I think I'm just gonna quit acting. [00:38:21] Speaker B: And do what, I wonder. [00:38:24] Speaker A: He is an artist. He's an artist. You can. You can. He does mostly what I see is, like, really cool pottery. Like, paint. Painting on, like, ceramics. Well, that's like, dishes and stuff. So he's a accomplished artists, so. And he look up his story. It's super fucking interesting. He had a crazy childhood, and it's wild that he ended up, like. Like, making a name for himself in Hollywood. It's. It's nuts. [00:38:55] Speaker B: Did he watch a monster kill a man at a young age and he knew that acting was what. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Some ways he did, yeah. Some way he dealt with. With the, you know, worst kind of monster that there is. And that's, you know, poor parenting and a shitty family. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly, according to him. So it just seems like something. The flamethrower seems like something that would be handed down as opposed to bought because of how poor they see. [00:39:28] Speaker B: That's a good point. [00:39:28] Speaker A: Yeah, well, they're poor, but happy. [00:39:30] Speaker B: And especially to, you know, the. The flashback scene to whenever he is a little kid and his dad, it feels like that's like, early 19 hundreds. Like, it doesn't feel like it's like, you know, the thirties or the twenties or forties. It feels like that's more like 1910. So to your point, it does kind of feel like he would be more, I don't know, at that age that he might have served in World War Two. [00:39:53] Speaker A: And, you know, when you grow up poor, I had this a little bit, like, I grew up, my house, my childhood house was very, like, like, early seventies looking because that's when it was built. The people who lived there before had, like, shag carpet up the walls and, like, crushed velvet, like, wallpaper and. Yeah, and we just had that for a big chunk of my childhood because we couldn't afford to remodel. And then I had just read deliverance over the summer. It's a fantastic book, obviously was turned into iconic film. And they, you know, you go to these backwards areas and they really are, like, stuck in a particular place in time. You know what I mean? They have their. Their, you know, I don't know this as a fact. This is just what I read and seen through pop culture and documentaries. [00:40:49] Speaker B: So it's like. It falls into, like, whatever if, you know, if you don't have the money to update your house, it falls into whatever era. It was, you know, built and decorated, and I'll just stay that way until it can be so. Yeah, it'll feel ten years old or 20 years old or 30 or whatever. So. [00:41:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And they do a really good job setting up his relationship with his son. Right. They got the nice hand washing moment, which apparently was, like, a thing Lance Hendrickson came up with. And they just. They build, like, a really, like, solid and efficient relationship that they have. [00:41:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I. [00:41:26] Speaker A: Right. So that you feel something when. That. When his son is lost, you get why he's so upset. They're not taking for granted that it's just like, oh, they're dead now. Well, you know what I mean? So, of course he would want vengeance. [00:41:37] Speaker B: He's kind of like, when are you saying that story right? Like, he's kind of putting in terms of, like, there once was a man who had a son who he knew he was going to be up to be a great man. Like. Like, you know what I mean? Like, his son is his life. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, he is a farmer and maybe a local, you know, local little shopkeeper, but his son is his life. That type of thing. [00:41:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when you're a kid that grows up poor, you usually get a lot of responsibility. And that brings up a question I have. Do you think Ed fucked up leaving his kid? I mean, obviously fucked up, but. But, like, do you blame Ed at all for leaving? What is the fucking kid's name? [00:42:16] Speaker B: Coke bottle glasses. [00:42:18] Speaker A: Coke bottle glasses. Yes. [00:42:20] Speaker B: I don't remember his name. [00:42:22] Speaker A: Billy. [00:42:23] Speaker B: Billy. [00:42:24] Speaker A: Billy. [00:42:25] Speaker B: I blame Ed Harley for not killing that fucking dog sooner. That dog was fucking trouble, man. You notice how, like, easy, mild mannered and trained he got the second that kid was dead? He was pretty. He was pretty easy going. He wasn't gonna run away or anything. He was. That was a setup. [00:42:52] Speaker A: You know, he hides in Billy's, like, foot locker towards the end when, again, another scene of pumpkinhead having a sense of humor. He goes into the closet, and bunt's hiding in the closet, and he's like, oh, I don't see ya. I gotcha. [00:43:09] Speaker B: No, I do see ya. [00:43:15] Speaker A: So poor Billy. Poor Billy diese. And Joel is very responsible about the whole thing. I love his. I love his introduction. Joel's a great guy once you get to know him. And then it cuts to, honey, get me a beer. As he's, like, hot rotting in the car. [00:43:31] Speaker B: Like, pass. [00:43:31] Speaker A: No, please, and thank you. [00:43:33] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, he sucks. [00:43:35] Speaker A: He only says thank you sarcastically to her because the beer, like, foams over when he opens it. Which is his fault. [00:43:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:42] Speaker A: For driving all over the road. Do you have a joel in your life, someone that you kind of have to, like, constantly apologize for? [00:43:51] Speaker B: This is awkward. [00:44:03] Speaker A: Cause it's Mickey, and Mickey is listening to this and editing it. We have to apologize for him. You know, he's a patriot and a father and a business owner. He's. You gotta apologize for him a lot, you know? [00:44:16] Speaker B: I mean. [00:44:20] Speaker A: No, but seriously. [00:44:21] Speaker B: No, I have. No, no, not. Not really. No, I used to have, like. I think when I was, like, a young teenager, I had some friends that were, like, chaotic, that got, like, you know, what? Kind of pull me into some situations that I probably wouldn't have necessarily done myself, but I wasn't, like, always apologizing for them, but it was situations like, you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't tp a house whenever I was, like, 13 or 14, but, like, these friends dragged me into a kind of a thing. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Uh huh. But. [00:44:47] Speaker B: Yeah, but nothing terrible. How about you're passing the buck on. [00:44:51] Speaker A: You're blaming somebody else? Okay. [00:44:52] Speaker B: It was not cool. [00:44:53] Speaker A: That's cool. [00:44:53] Speaker B: I was. I didn't murder that girl. But, you know, let's talk about you. [00:45:02] Speaker A: Yeah. My brother. I have a brother who I love. He's. He's. No, not all. Just one of them. One of them in particular. In particular. One of them in particular is. Is, like, kind of a guy that you. That I have to, like. Like. No, no, no. He's. He's a good guy, and he really is. [00:45:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:20] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Yeah, he really is. He wouldn't do what Joel does, for sure. It's ridiculous what Joel does, and it's ridiculous how far they let him go with it. You know what I mean? [00:45:34] Speaker B: I. I think almost what's more ridiculous is his, like, turn on a dollar. Like, you know, like. Like, he's at the house, he's, like, keeps doubling down. He shoves, you know, the two of them in the closet, and suddenly he's just like, you know, I'm a fuck up, but I'm not gonna fuck up anymore or whatever. And, like, everything's cool. It's just so, like, weird. [00:45:56] Speaker A: Such a weird turn again. That's one of those story issues. It's like, I could buy a turn, and. And I see a good actor doing a good job of creating that arc. He's doing the best, but it doesn't quite. Yeah, yeah. With. With the material. I think they're all doing the best they can with the material. Again, it's such a focus is put on, like. Like, every single frame of this film is a beautiful painting. [00:46:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's fair. [00:46:27] Speaker A: It's. It's. It's amazing. It's just like, if there had only been, like. Like, a stronger story element to it, I think it. I think you would. You would hear about it more in combination with the fact of, like, you know, if de Laurentiis company hadn't gone, you know, out of business at that same time too. Just bad timing. [00:46:46] Speaker B: So do you think then that that's like. Do you think that, to your point then, about the whole de Laurentiis chopping it up, do you think if there's more of whatever the. [00:46:56] Speaker A: I don't think so. [00:46:57] Speaker B: I kind of don't feel like. [00:46:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's an excuse. Think you actually blame me. You call me out for it sometimes where I'm like, well, the artist's original vision. But I don't. I don't. I think even with all the stuff that was cut out of it, like, I still think you have, like, the same issue. [00:47:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:20] Speaker A: With the story, which is like, fine. It's a great concept, and it's. It's like, to me, this is, like, the greatest tv movie of all time, in a way. You know what I mean? [00:47:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Good job avoiding my trap of falling into being like, no, I think if the artist had had his vision and could have the money. I was gonna get you. I was gonna get you. [00:47:44] Speaker A: You were gonna fucking get me, dude. [00:47:46] Speaker B: I think, though, like, you know, kind of going back to what you're saying, right, about how, like, it. This film is, you know, you like it, but, like, it feels boring at times, despite the fact that's kind of a short film. And even then, you feel like, you know, somebody could get. [00:47:57] Speaker A: I wouldn't. I wouldn't call it boring, but, like, slow pacing. [00:48:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like that's, like. I think that that's kind of. I feel like where I. With it, like, the bones of. It's really good, but I feel like it just needs more story refinement, you know what I mean? Like, there's just more, like. Like, lean more into, like, the. The K. The teenagers, the city folk, whatever you want to put them as, you know, maybe part of them being more asshole ish and callous and creating more of that divide between, like, the two camps there. Instead of. It almost feels like it's just the one guy versus all of them, you know, everyone else, which then feels a little. And then they're just immediately, like, okay with him again. I feel like there needs to be more there with that. And then also, too, seeing Lance Hendrickson Ed's harley, like, he kind of goes from straight. I want vengeance at any cost to this is wrong. We must stop it. Like, I feel like, again, like, there's, like, this sharp character. [00:48:57] Speaker A: He's missing a little piece there. [00:48:58] Speaker B: He's missing, like, a warning up or more of a. [00:49:00] Speaker A: Maybe that's one of the scenes. Maybe that's one of the scenes that. That. That's lost. Right? [00:49:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:05] Speaker A: Is like, his. His. His transition. [00:49:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:49:09] Speaker A: To realizing what he's decided. He. And he's a real dick to the Wallaces after. He's like, you know, the guy's like, you do not want this. You should not do this. This is a bad idea. [00:49:19] Speaker B: Yeah. That woman will not. I mean, your soul or something. Like damnation or something. Right? Like, that's what the senior says. Yeah. And then banging on the door, be like, we gotta stop him. Like, what's this? [00:49:31] Speaker A: I'm gonna shoot you if you don't let me in. It's like, yeah, fuck you, dude. Yeah. [00:49:36] Speaker B: You were just. [00:49:37] Speaker A: You're supposed to created this mess. [00:49:39] Speaker B: Bring me feed. That's all you had to do. Yeah. [00:49:43] Speaker A: They don't seem like good friends. No, to me. Oh. [00:49:47] Speaker B: There's even, like, he's. They're clearly, like, kind of pissy with each other about the feed thing at the store. You know what I mean? And then suddenly it's like, we gotta stop the monster that you told me not to do. Why don't you come and help me? Risk your own life and family for this? What the fuck? [00:50:04] Speaker A: And, you know, Haggis's place, her shack? How's she lighting all those candles? [00:50:14] Speaker B: I think that it's kind of like a beauty and the beast situation with the owl, the rats, the spiders. [00:50:22] Speaker A: They're doing it, all the work, and. [00:50:24] Speaker B: They do a little sing and song. Yeah, that. That's kind of, I think, what happens there. [00:50:28] Speaker A: I like. I like the world in which. Yeah, it's like she's actually, like, a really cool, nice witch, but he's going there with malicious intent to do something dumb. So, like, he. He's almost creating the version of haggis that he assumes her to be. Kind of like you get, which is this decrepit old. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's the same thing with. With the. The out of towners. Right. Is like, Steve seems like a good guy, but if you surround yourself with a shitty person or shitty people, shitty things are gonna happen. [00:51:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. [00:51:07] Speaker A: You know what I mean? You have to surround yourself with, like, good people, you know? And speaking of good people, man, if. Okay, we said the stuff about buck flowers, by the way, which plays Mister Wallace. I love fucking buck flowers. He's in a bunch of stuff. Escape from New York, all kinds of stuff. [00:51:26] Speaker B: I'm a prejudice. [00:51:27] Speaker A: If he. If he. If he had done the simple thing of, like, he just warns him, he's like, don't do this. Your soul's gonna go to hell. You know what I mean? Think of how many times in your life, like, your parents or somebody are like, don't do this. It's bad. And you gotta, like. You just. Sometimes you gotta step on the landmine yourself. Yeah, but like, if someone takes the time to talk with you, you know what I mean? And, like, help you, he's obviously, he's in pain and he wants vengeance. So, like, if someone had just, like, been able to talk with him, maybe they would have been able to talk him out of doing this terrible thing I feel that he ends up doing. [00:52:00] Speaker B: I think that's completely true. I feel like, though, that this is the, like he is. It's true to the character of his sympathy or his ability to communicate with him is. I'm sorry that happened to. But you gotta bury your boy. You know what I mean? Like, that's. That's almost like the best that that person can give. [00:52:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's the best that guy can give. Yeah. [00:52:23] Speaker B: He's not going to talk to you about feelings or dealing with loss. [00:52:29] Speaker A: So you would say your dad is less of an Ed Harley and more of a mister Wallace. [00:52:34] Speaker B: Yeah. You gotta bury that boy. [00:52:45] Speaker A: He's not wrong. [00:52:46] Speaker B: No, I think so. I guess I'm kind of curious here. Have you ever sought revenge? Have you ever. [00:53:02] Speaker A: Of course. [00:53:03] Speaker B: Can you. Can you tell me. Tell me where the bodies are buried? [00:53:11] Speaker A: Trying to think. I can't think of a single story right now. That would have been a good thing to think about. Since you thought of it, have you thought of any? All I can tell you is, like, whenever I have sought revenge, and it's a very, like, mild kind of revenge, no one's dying. Yeah. No one's getting physically hurt. It never was satisfying. And you're filled with regret. [00:53:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:40] Speaker A: As a result of it. You know what I mean? There's no growth in revenge. [00:53:46] Speaker B: No. [00:53:47] Speaker A: I'm sicilian. You know what I mean? Like, vendettas. It's like a thing, you know, like I. You know, that's one of the things, you know, I grew up watching films, and I remember the godfather. You know what I mean? They. They talk about in the godfather two, they talk about, like, all the. All the young men are dead because of vendettas. [00:54:07] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:54:08] Speaker A: You know what I mean? It gets you nowhere. [00:54:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Just death. Death begets death. No, I feel like I was never. I never was one, really, that, like, sought, like, I think, any sort of revenge. I had a moment in my life in which I was concerned that I was. That someone was going to seek, like, revenge against me. [00:54:30] Speaker A: Oh, really? [00:54:31] Speaker B: Which was. [00:54:31] Speaker A: What did you do? [00:54:32] Speaker B: I didn't do anything, but so whenever. [00:54:35] Speaker A: What did they think you did? [00:54:37] Speaker B: Well, whenever I was a sophomore going into my junior year of high school, it was like, the summer in between. I was, like, out with my friends late one night, like, we were, like, you know, having a good time, doing whatever. And I was driving back to my house, and we lived in, like, kind of in a country area with, like, windy roads and that type of thing. And there was a guy behind me, uh, driving on a country road and, like, on a curvy road, and he tried passing me, and he wasn't able to get around me, and he went off the road and over corrected and crashed and died, unfortunately. [00:55:17] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:55:18] Speaker B: And this was a neighbor of mine. [00:55:20] Speaker A: You have never told me this. [00:55:22] Speaker B: I feel like I have. [00:55:24] Speaker A: No, you most certainly have never told me this. [00:55:28] Speaker B: Really? [00:55:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:55:29] Speaker B: This is a pretty big thing that happened in my life. [00:55:31] Speaker A: I know, I know. Some serious. I know. See, this kind of goes into something we've been talking about, which is sharing, but, like, definitely. You definitely never have. Like, there's other things I can mention that I'm not going to. The big events in your life that have happened. This is crazy. [00:55:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes, it was. [00:55:52] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:55:53] Speaker B: He. Unfortunately, he. It was a curvy road. He was trying to pass me going very fast. He went off the road. He over corrected, wasn't wearing a seatbelt, and he crashed. He flipped it multiple times, and it. Yeah, so anyway, he was a neighbor of mine, like, not too far, like a, you know, half a block block down the road, whatever. He was one of, I think, two or three brothers of a family. And so I guess I lived for a period of time there in which I was worried, despite the fact that I didn't personally do anything wrong, that there would be an action taken against me. [00:56:36] Speaker A: So I feel repercussions with a fear. [00:56:38] Speaker B: Of revenge, even though I was not someone that, like, purposely caused this horrible thing to happen. [00:56:46] Speaker A: So did anyone make you feel that you were responsible? [00:56:49] Speaker B: No, but they put a giant cross where the accident was. So every time I would drive past it I would feel very, like, guilty and like, I would feel like I was like kind of scared of the spot as you can imagine because, I mean, I was like, yeah, 1617. You know, I was young. [00:57:07] Speaker A: Was this, was this person the same age as you? [00:57:09] Speaker B: He was two years older than me, I believe. I think he was like 18 or 19. [00:57:15] Speaker A: Did they know? They knew you as a neighbor? [00:57:17] Speaker B: Yeah, my brother played with his brother whenever they were younger. We knew each other but there was never any sort of communication or conversation about it. Post. [00:57:29] Speaker A: Did you ever. I mean, did you blame yourself at all? [00:57:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I did. Because, like, I don't know, like, in that situation, right? Like it was late at night. I, like, should I have like, guys trying to pat, like I had, like. So this was like my first car which was a Dodge Dakota with an extended cab. So we're talking like a, like a nineties truck. So they're really long. Right. And he had a truck too. So, like, did if in this moment, right, like, if this, had this, this thing that happened, if I had just been like, you know, what a fucking asshole. And just like, slammed my brakes on or like, you know, hit my brakes harder or something like that and slow down a lot more because, like, I didn't slow down, you know, I was being passed or whatever. Would he have like had more time to get over into the other lane and then, like, he wouldn't have, you know, like, would have not happened. It would have just been one of those things of like, you know, then I have a story then after that of like, oh, yeah, this fucking asshole that passed me on this like, curvy country road late at night and then he would have, he would continue to live and have a story of like, oh, yeah, did this crazy thing on this road once. [00:58:37] Speaker A: You know, he probably would never even remember it. [00:58:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:40] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Yeah, he's just a guy you passed. Yeah, I'm sure he's, he's done it many times. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. [00:58:46] Speaker B: Who knows? [00:58:48] Speaker A: God did. You were so. You just maintained speed. [00:58:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it was like, I mean, we're talking like, you know, like 25, 30 miles an hour on like a, you know, like a curvy country road. So it's not like you're going fast. [00:59:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:01] Speaker B: Then he was probably going, I don't know, 45, 50 would, I guess, you. [00:59:05] Speaker A: Know, and you know this. You know this. It's not your fault. You know this, right? [00:59:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I do. [00:59:11] Speaker A: It's not, it's not your fault, Chris. No, but, but, but seriously, I'm sure you've, like. [00:59:17] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's definitely something that like, I've, like, you know, I can't. I can only control myself. You can't control others, right? Like, this is the cornerstone of how you should live your life and how you should. Yeah. You can only maintain what you can maintain. So. [00:59:35] Speaker A: Jesus Christ. Did you, like, I guess you just pulled over and like, so. Or did you. You. There's no cell phone. So, like, yes, I've had driven somewhere. [00:59:47] Speaker B: So I. Exactly what happened? So the accident happened. There was a passenger who lived. He let out a blood curdling scream saying this person's name. I got close enough to see it, that type of thing. And behind them, not super close, was they had more friends that were kind of like trailing behind. So they, so he ran to them. They went. Run to go call the cops. I tried like, turning my truck around and went too far into the ditch and got stuck. So then I'm like, like, imagine like a, like, field, a curvy road, big, you know, fall off from the road. I've gone too far. [01:00:31] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about. [01:00:34] Speaker B: The smoke of a crash of a car, the, like, blinking lights from it. A dead person in the middle of this, like, darkness of a Kansas night. Until then, cops and rescuer and like, you know, fire comes. [01:00:51] Speaker A: Were there even streetlights? [01:00:53] Speaker B: This was not a place that had streams. [01:00:55] Speaker A: Jesus Christ, what a nightmare. [01:00:58] Speaker B: It was a crazy night. [01:00:59] Speaker A: Did you have to go to the police station? [01:01:01] Speaker B: No, they took my statement there. And, uh. Yeah. And of course it was like a lot like, oh, have you been drinking? I was like, no. [01:01:11] Speaker A: Thank God. Thank God. [01:01:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:13] Speaker A: Yeah, right? [01:01:14] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:01:14] Speaker A: Because even if you did nothing wrong, if you had been drinking, you know what I mean? Even if you had been going the speed limit or. Jesus Christ, man. I can't believe you never told me that. I'm gonna make this about me now. I'm gonna make this about me. No, man, we've never talked about it. [01:01:31] Speaker B: Dude, I believe you. [01:01:32] Speaker A: I would remember this. I forgot. I forget, like, trivial things. [01:01:37] Speaker B: Sure. [01:01:38] Speaker A: Or seemingly trivial things. My apologies if I've forgotten something that was important to you, but I certainly would not forget. I cannot wait to tell Ally about this. [01:01:49] Speaker B: You never experienced from the, from the. [01:01:52] Speaker A: Perspective, just not, not to tell your story, which is a very interesting story, but to tell her that you. You thought you had talked about this. [01:02:01] Speaker B: Before, but no, the first time I saw a guy break his neck in. [01:02:04] Speaker A: A car. [01:02:09] Speaker B: I'm laughing because I deal with trauma. [01:02:12] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. Laughter and tragedy are in horror are all closely related. And what is the saying? Comedy or tragedy plus time equals comedy. [01:02:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:23] Speaker A: Not to make light of the life that was lost and the lives that were forever affected by that. That's what a fucking night. Like, there's no, there's no positive outcome from that scenario. [01:02:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:40] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [01:02:40] Speaker B: No, it's just a life loss for fucking awful. Yeah. [01:02:43] Speaker A: For no reason. Impatience. [01:02:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure. Probably a little like, you know, like teenagers, show off, eat to your friend. Maybe they had done some drinking. I don't know. You know, it's not important in the grand scheme. [01:02:54] Speaker A: Was that not part of like, like a public autopsy report? [01:02:57] Speaker B: No, they don't talk about that. [01:02:58] Speaker A: Like. So you didn't have to go to court or anything? [01:03:00] Speaker B: No. No. [01:03:01] Speaker A: So I guess the friend was like, corroborated. Yeah. Saying that wrong. [01:03:08] Speaker B: I don't think there's much to the. I mean, it's not like I, you know, you can't, uh. There's nothing really that can happen there. Like, you know, it was a self accident in front of me, in effect. You know, it didn't, like, the car didn't, like, hit mine. You know what I mean? Like he was like, yeah. Went off the road, went all the way back and then like, you know, rolled several times, then back across the road. [01:03:30] Speaker A: Oh my God. [01:03:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:32] Speaker A: Did you go to the funeral? [01:03:33] Speaker B: No. [01:03:36] Speaker A: Did you get, like, dirty looks from his family or his friends? Like. [01:03:41] Speaker B: No, didn't really have any, like, contact really. You know what I mean? Like, they're neighbors. But, like, we didn't, like, we weren't close or anything, so, no, I didn't have any, like, negative things, but I lived like, a bit of an in fear for a while that I thought something like, might happen. Like, oh, like I've been blamed. That type of thing. Because also too, like, you know, when you're a teenager. Well, hell, I still feel this way. [01:03:59] Speaker A: Everything's my fault, my fault. [01:04:01] Speaker B: It's gonna find a way to blame me. [01:04:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:04:04] Speaker B: So, yeah. [01:04:07] Speaker A: Jesus Christ. Did you want to go to the, like, did you think about going? Did you talk. What kind of talk did you have with your parents about this? Did you. Were you able to talk to anybody about this? [01:04:18] Speaker B: I mean, I've talked to people over the years. Yeah. No, no. [01:04:21] Speaker A: But when it happened, did you like, was your mom there for you? [01:04:27] Speaker B: It was I. The police officer. No, the fireman. That was, like, not a family friend, but did go to the church that, like, my mother went to and I went to when I was a kid kind of thing, so kind of, like, knew me kind of thing. Gave me his phone so I could call my folks to let him know kind of what happened. And so I was like, oh, there was an accident. I'm fine. The car is fine. I'll be home in a while. Took a couple hours, of course, because, like, everyone has to do, like, police reports and that type of thing, and then, like, you know, wait for them to do their piece before they can, like. Like, push my car out and let me go home. My truck at the time. But, um, so I remember I come. Come home, and, uh, my folks are, like, staying up, like, the, like, quintessential. I feel like, uh, fifties thing. They're in their bed in their pajamas, like, you know, the lights on the bedroom, reading something, waiting for me to come home. [01:05:16] Speaker A: It's like, you know, separate. Separate beds, of course. [01:05:18] Speaker B: Separate beds, of course. Of course. Don't be disgusting. And. And I, like, this is me, I guess, how I deal with trauma, but I'm just like, well, this person's name is dead. That's, like, how I decided. [01:05:38] Speaker A: That sounds like you would. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like you. Yeah. [01:05:40] Speaker B: Which they're like, what? Like, you know. So I explained it as. I've just explained it to you. [01:05:49] Speaker A: Did they. Do you feel like they. Did you feel anything from them that would make you think that they somehow held you responsible, or do you feel like they supported you? [01:06:00] Speaker B: I don't feel like neither. There was just, like, nothing. You know what I mean? [01:06:04] Speaker A: Like, damn, that's crazy, dude. [01:06:06] Speaker B: No one ever talked about it with me. [01:06:09] Speaker A: That's insane. [01:06:10] Speaker B: One time, my friend teased me about it in the middle of class. Like, it was like, this. Like, this girl. He was like. He was like, oh, you got to be careful with this guy. Did you hear about what happened to blah, blah, blah? That's this guy over here. I was like, fuck, you know, geometry class. I remember the teacher being, like, principal, like, you know, kind of thing, because I was, like, yelling obscenities in the middle of a class to him. You know, he didn't know the context so much. [01:06:42] Speaker A: There are things that are kind of becoming clearer to me about you right now. [01:06:48] Speaker B: You get a bigger window into the soul. [01:06:51] Speaker A: Yeah. This is a, like, a gigantic, major life event that, like. And we're. We're like, oh, man, we're spending like, a half an hour on this, but, like. Like, this is. No, no, this is insane. [01:07:04] Speaker B: I really. [01:07:05] Speaker A: This is crazy. No. Oh, my God. [01:07:09] Speaker B: This is gonna come as such. [01:07:10] Speaker A: This is wild. Wow. I'm sorry to the listener if we're spending too much time on this, but it's like, just as Chris's best friend, I'm just, like. Like, flabbergasted and curious, and I'm. I apologize if I'm exploiting. [01:07:25] Speaker B: No. [01:07:26] Speaker A: This aspect of your life, but, like, I just need to know what we. [01:07:29] Speaker B: Talk about in the top, right? We're talking about our life experiences and who we are through these films. Right. [01:07:34] Speaker A: Well, Jesus Christ. [01:07:36] Speaker B: And that's. That started my fascination with sex and car accidents. No, I'm joking. This is the crash scenario. [01:07:47] Speaker A: Cut that, cut that, cut that, cut that, cut that. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Kind of speechless. [01:08:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:03] Speaker A: Sorry, even though I'm talking. [01:08:05] Speaker B: Should I. Should I bring up. [01:08:07] Speaker A: So back to this. [01:08:09] Speaker B: Can I ask you a stupid question that I had from the movie? [01:08:12] Speaker A: Hold on. I. I have a stupid question. [01:08:15] Speaker B: Okay, here. Sure. Go for it. [01:08:18] Speaker A: Did your brother ever scare you with a pumpkin head type story or legend? [01:08:23] Speaker B: No, I don't really recall. Like. Yeah, I don't really remember ever anything like that happening. Like, I've kind of told you about, like, my, like, story about, like, exorcism stuff before that he would. Like, he scared me about. But never, like. [01:08:35] Speaker A: But never the movie. [01:08:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Never anything like a fiction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, never anything like. [01:08:39] Speaker A: Okay. Like, I don't know if you're like, oh, yeah, yeah. I was part of an exorcism. I was possessed by a demon. [01:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah. It's no big deal. His name was Gary. He was all right. [01:08:49] Speaker A: I would not be surprised. Really, if you. If you like. Yeah, my brother was. Was. Was possessed by a demon. [01:08:57] Speaker B: Yeah, no big deal. Catholic church made a whole big deal about it. It's like, jeez, blah, blah, blah. [01:09:03] Speaker A: Fucking William freaking came. He's obsessed with me. [01:09:07] Speaker B: He kept asking me, like, do you love me? And trust me and would slap me. [01:09:11] Speaker A: It was weird. Do you love me? Do you trust me? I do. I do miss, like, the playground. [01:09:25] Speaker B: Oh. [01:09:26] Speaker A: Used to be like, google. [01:09:29] Speaker B: Did you. [01:09:30] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [01:09:30] Speaker B: Did you get. You wanted to figure on the playground? [01:09:34] Speaker A: Oh, of course. [01:09:35] Speaker B: Really? [01:09:36] Speaker A: Yeah, you got the bloody Marys and local legends and things like that and. Yeah, things like, you talked about, like. Like, so many films. My first experience was, like, listening to some kid on the playground or the bus. Tell me about it? [01:09:54] Speaker B: Uh huh. [01:09:55] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [01:09:55] Speaker B: Sure. Was it, like, did it, like, scar you, like, was there, like, really, like, you know, things that, like, was this, like. So is this, like, a thing that, like, your first taste of, like, horror? Like, you know what I mean? Like, is it, like, the beginning archway to, like, your love of horror, or is this, like. I mean, something that was, like, oh, it was kind of scarring at the time. [01:10:17] Speaker A: Well, like, unsolved mysteries scar. [01:10:20] Speaker B: Oh, my God, the intro. [01:10:22] Speaker A: I can't. I can't hear that music into without. Without to this day, like, having trauma from it. And, like, I couldn't tell you specific stories just because, like, I've, like, buried them so deeply. You know what I mean? [01:10:41] Speaker B: I can't believe you never told me about that. I'm joking. [01:10:47] Speaker A: Did you ever do a blood ritual or a pact? [01:10:51] Speaker B: Yeah, one time, me and my different multi race friends, we had this whole thing going on with the police in Los Angeles, and so we did a bowl in which we bled into, and we threw it at the archway of a almost abandoned police station. [01:11:09] Speaker A: Why? I have no idea what movie you're referencing. Oh, they do that. I forget that they do that. I forget that they do that. Yeah, I forget about the blood. Richest part of it. I did a lot. [01:11:22] Speaker B: Did you do something like that? Like, tack to the finger or something like that? [01:11:26] Speaker A: Well, my dad was diabetic, so we had those, like, little fingerprinters at the house. So, like, whenever my brothers and I, or my sister would come up with, like, like, a bet or an idea or something, we would, like, write up a contract, and we would always sign in blood. [01:11:42] Speaker B: Really? [01:11:43] Speaker A: Because. Because we could. Because we thought it was so cool. I think we saw some movie, was, like, signed in blood, and I was like, well, we're gonna sign this in blood, obviously. And I wish. Oh, my God, I wish I had all of them, because, I mean, like, there was. There was, like, probably a five year period where, like, on a weekly basis, we came up with some sort of, like, signature and blood contract situation. [01:12:08] Speaker B: I get your sucker. You'll have to do a contract in blood, of course, for it. [01:12:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of revenge, real quick, I will say the only times in my life that really, like, revenge was, like, at the forefront. I was, like, overcome with emotion, and it was all about revenge was with my siblings. Like, it's like, five. There's five of us. We're like, we're poor. And there is. My mom is going to school. My dad is working three jobs. They can't afford babysitters. When we do have a babysitter, she can't hack it. You know what I mean? Because we're fucking monsters. And like, talk about revenge, like constantly. [01:12:50] Speaker B: Sure. [01:12:51] Speaker A: Like, I had my finger cut off as a kid that got. Reattached. My fingertip. Really. [01:12:59] Speaker B: For like. [01:13:02] Speaker A: We used to play this game where you would hold onto a table and everyone would shake the table and it was like riding a bull and like, okay. You know, it's like, see how long you get? Hold on. And like, the table fell and there's a nail on the floor and it cut off the tip of my finger. Thankfully, there was an awesome doctor who reattached it. We would. Real quick, we play games. Like we would hit each other with baseball bats as a surprise. We would play a game called Duckdeene where we would throw knives at each. Like my dad was a butcher. Yeah. Yeah. So we throw. It's like if you. You were. You were a fucking wimp. If you ducked, you know what I mean? We would. My brother would shove us into a fridge and then knock it over. Thankfully, it never fell on the door. We just like in like, the emotion. It was like every day was like a greek. Greek level tragedy. Like shakespearean level. Just like. Like revenge on your sibling for doing this thing to you poor parents. I love them all dearly. I know. My poor siblings, my poor parents, my poor neighbors, my poor every, like everything. [01:14:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:19] Speaker A: Yeah. So I don't know how you felt when you ever. You. Whenever you got hurt as a kid, but did your, did your parents ever do your mom ever do the wet, ratified wet rag? [01:14:30] Speaker B: No. No. What's that? [01:14:31] Speaker A: Billy, you know, Ed gives Billy a wet rag. [01:14:37] Speaker B: When does that happen? [01:14:39] Speaker A: That happens when he dies. It's the scene where Billy dies. [01:14:41] Speaker B: He's like rubbing his face with it. [01:14:43] Speaker A: Well, he's like. He gets a wet rag to sort of help him. It's like a thing in movies. Like a wet rag is like nice if it's like a wet rag or a warm wet rag if it's like hot or cold. But like as a first aid thing. [01:14:58] Speaker B: No, useless. Like, I mean, compression. [01:15:00] Speaker A: I wonder if he had just like if the kids. Or if he had like, just driven to a hospital. Could Billy have been saying, I wonder the same thing? [01:15:08] Speaker B: Like, I kind of like, that's not. [01:15:10] Speaker A: The point of the movie, but like. [01:15:11] Speaker B: You know, but you can't but wonder because it's not like anyone ever seeks any medical attention or help from authorities at any point in this whole situation. [01:15:19] Speaker A: Which is pretty well, this is back country. [01:15:21] Speaker B: Well, true, but there's got a. Be an old sheriff who's running around being like, hey, what you guys doing? You got a cv? Radio? Let me hang out. He wants to be involved. They won't even let him get involved in a little kid murder. That's why he's lonely. [01:15:40] Speaker A: It's a reference to the sheriff and scarecrow. Dark night of the scarecrow. [01:15:44] Speaker B: I, uh. I mean, yeah, right. Like, also too, like, it seems like they really, like. Like they kill that kid quick with the dirt bike crash. You know what I mean? Like, I guess if it broke his neck or something, but yeah, she seems, like, similar to my childhood teenager experience. There's a lot of breaking necks around here. [01:16:10] Speaker A: I don't think his neck was broken. Why do you think he died, then? [01:16:14] Speaker B: Internal injury? [01:16:15] Speaker A: I don't know how he died. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Internal bleeding. [01:16:23] Speaker B: Sure. [01:16:25] Speaker A: That seems. That seems to be the thing. You know what I mean? [01:16:28] Speaker B: That's a thing. People are really into the internal bleeding these days. I got a quick stupid question for you. Do you think any motorcyclists were deeply offended by this movie? [01:16:44] Speaker A: Yes. Did you know as a person with a motorcycle license? [01:16:49] Speaker B: I was. Yeah. I will tell you that to you. Actually, when they said that. Oh, your motorcycle. It's a fucking dirt bike. I mean, not a motorcycle. [01:16:57] Speaker A: Get it together, guys. Also, all the people I know who ride don't drink. [01:17:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Right. [01:17:03] Speaker A: Almost all of them are sober. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We used to. Chris and I used to work at this coffee shop in Kansas City, and one of the locations was known for, like, all these biker guys would show up and have coffee and, like, they were all. But, like, they were all, like, accountants and shit. [01:17:24] Speaker B: Yep. [01:17:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:25] Speaker B: But they're tough. [01:17:29] Speaker A: So. Yeah. What. What do you. So, Ed. I like what they do with Ed. Right. He's. He's kind of turning into pumpkin head. Pumpkin head is kind of turning into Ed. They're linked. Right. Um, there's some. Again, it's like this last bit. Like the. Right after the. The church sequence. Right. Where bunt helps out the. The remaining people. [01:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:05] Speaker A: Do you think he has an ulterior motive? He kind of seems like he's, like, got something devilish about him that it's like, is he. Is he. Is he just trying to do something good? Is he trying to, like, get some excitement? Which is totally understandable. I imagine his life is pretty fucking boring. [01:18:23] Speaker B: Well, that's what he says to his sister. Right about, like, I got to know if it's, like, true or not. Which I guess, like, I think that's kind of to your point, right? Like, needing, like, some excitement. You're just so bored, and, like, you've been faced with this story that, like, evidently everyone hears and knows, even though then the, like, who can create this monster is a little bit of a mystery in the beginning. You know what I mean? Like, there's all these, like, I feel like all the, like, rural townspeople know about if you've been marked and pumpkinhead's gonna come kill you. Because even, like, the guy, like, with the dog on the shotgun, whenever they have the altercation, he's like, you've been marked. I can't help you. Get away from my truck. You know, that whole thing to Chris and whatever that other woman's name is. [01:19:09] Speaker A: Wallace's brother, Mister Wallace's brother. I think that was who you're talking about. [01:19:13] Speaker B: That was really. That was the brother of Wallace. Really? [01:19:17] Speaker A: I think so. That seemed like the Wallace clan all in that area, huh? I could be wrong. [01:19:22] Speaker B: No, you could be wrong. [01:19:23] Speaker A: But I thought. I thought it was like, bunt's uncle. [01:19:24] Speaker B: I mean, that's very Appalachia, you know what I mean? Like, everyone's related kind of thing. [01:19:31] Speaker A: But it's also, I think that's another problem with the storytelling. It's like it kind of gets muddled. [01:19:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:36] Speaker A: It's like some of the characters aren't so identifiable and well written and like, it, like, so right after that church scene. Right. Which is phenomenal. Yeah, it kind of like it. I kind of start to, like, drift in the story. There's some cool things that are happening, but I kind of drift a little bit. It gets a little confusing. Who's still alive? What exactly. It's like, like, I can't recall all the deaths. You know, the pumpkin heads. Like, I got your. I got the. The chain from them, from the dirt bike. [01:20:11] Speaker B: You're not getting away to your point, right, about being kind of Freddy and having a sense of humor. It's like, I wrote that down. [01:20:17] Speaker A: When he's. When he stabs Joel with the gun, I think he's gonna shoot him, maybe. But they're. Well, it's fucking. [01:20:27] Speaker B: It's great, too, because at first, like, you kind of feel like, oh, man, are they gonna, like the whole, like, crux, like, who's at fault here? You know, the. The biggest issue that's created the problem is gonna get off light and get this super, you know, easygoing death of just getting shot. Nope. He gets stabbed to death with a rifle. [01:20:49] Speaker A: So then he fights back. He's on the side of good. He saves. See? And this is the thing. It's like, who survives? Is it Kim, the one who's taking the photos? [01:21:04] Speaker B: Yes, I think that's right. I think it's. [01:21:06] Speaker A: And then does Chris young, Clark Kent survive? Or is it just Kim? [01:21:12] Speaker B: No, I think. I think he's alive, which is. It doesn't make sense, because. Because that'd be the only person that pumpkin head would leave alive. But it's almost like, because they kind of want to give you. [01:21:24] Speaker A: He doesn't leave them alive. Lance Hendrickson figures out, like, oh, well, if I get hurt, they get hurt. And pumpkinhead dies before he can finish the job. [01:21:34] Speaker B: But Chris is the one that pumpkinhead had. Remember? Like, he had him on the bike and he threw him off and he, like, dragged him off, and they had to bunt. And Kim goes running off whenever Ed comes. And that whole thing, like. You know what I mean? Like, it seems like they're saying Chris is still alive despite the fact that pumpkin head's been, like, fucking him up from wherever. [01:21:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:52] Speaker B: They were to Ed Hurley's house. [01:21:53] Speaker A: I mean, the guy, he doesn't have the kryptonite. You know what I mean? [01:21:57] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:21:59] Speaker A: Pocket head needs the kryptonite. [01:22:00] Speaker B: I need Superman for the. The. Not bizarro Superman, but the nuclear powered Superman. [01:22:07] Speaker A: His log nail. Yeah, very. [01:22:12] Speaker B: Like the long fingernail. [01:22:18] Speaker A: But I think, like, this never happens when we're talking about a film that I'm like, I get murky on what happened. [01:22:25] Speaker B: Sure. [01:22:25] Speaker A: Know what I mean? Like, like, I usually watch the movies, like, twice, and, like, I have all the beats written down, and it's just like, it kind of just gets. Gets murky at the end and. Yeah. And it's. It's like. Like, the makeup looks great. Pumpkin head is changing into. Ed's turning into him. So this is. This is. This is where I wanted to ask you, pumpkin head, do you think happens? [01:22:54] Speaker B: I think that's like. Okay, so that's the question, right? Like, is pumpkin head a demon entity that is comprised, in effect, of all of these people who have, like, sought, you know, blood revenge over an action, justified or not? You know what I mean? Like, it's a horrible thing. Like, in this situation, you understand the pain and the agony that Ed Hurley's going through, but it doesn't justify him wanting to murder all of these people in the wake, and he comes to realize that, but it's that, like, is pumpkin head the composition of all of these lost souls, if you will? Is he, like, a collector? This is a Shang Tsung mortal Kombat situation. He's collecting the souls. [01:23:42] Speaker A: I'm lost on that, buddy. Not a fan like you are, but. [01:23:48] Speaker B: Is he, like, a collector of the souls? And he is like. It's just more like the symbolism of, like, you have become the. This darkness, this evil kind of thing. [01:23:58] Speaker A: Well, he's so a fact. Facts is facts of the film is when haggis buries pumpkin Head. Yeah, it's head. [01:24:14] Speaker B: Well, it's got the neck. [01:24:15] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, it's got the necklace. Right. Is there more, like, I went. I went back and I was like, did pumpkin headwear get the necklace? And it's like, no, Ed has the necklace the whole time. And Ed is changing into pumpkin head and pumpkin heads. Pumpkin head essentially becomes an effigy. [01:24:31] Speaker B: Yes. [01:24:31] Speaker A: Right? [01:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:24:34] Speaker A: So the body that's buried is Ed's body. I did not have, like, continued to transform even more so into what pumpkin head looked like originally when Ed took him out. So. So here. Here's what I. Here's here my two bets on this. So Ed's punishment is to live in torment as a tool of revenge, waiting to be called upon until the next loathsome soul craves vengeance. So is he a part of pumpkin Head or doesn't he now he does. He now hold the mantle of pumpkin head until the next loads. Some soul tries to enact vengeance. And is he laying semi conscious in the dirt as a form of solitary confinement? You know what I mean? [01:25:28] Speaker B: Sure. [01:25:28] Speaker A: So it's like. It's like, I think that's his. That's his torment, is that now he has to lay in this dirt in a, like, purgatory sort of solitary confinement world in which he is just waiting to be called upon again. And, like, how in control, like, the entity of pumpkin head is now part of him. So, like, if he is called upon, he will have no. He's a golem. So he'll have no recourse other than to take vengeance as pumpkin head and pass on. And, like, how painful. I wonder who was the. Whoever the pumpkin head was before. [01:26:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:26:18] Speaker A: And, like, is that. What's pumpkin head going? Like? Pumpkin head seems to be having a good time. [01:26:24] Speaker B: He's not a bad time. I mean, you don't want to your party, but he's definitely doing the best you can and making some laughs the. [01:26:32] Speaker A: Way, like, if I'm on his good side, you know what I mean? He's a good, like, he's pumpkin heads. The type of friend I would make in high school because I was, like, very small and shy and weak and make friends with the pumpkin heads because then nobody messes with you because you're friends with pumpkin head. [01:26:50] Speaker B: Pumpkin head, though, like, there's like, this, like, any sort of guilt by association the pumpkin head has. Like, even if you are like, like, what's the kid's name? Bunt. Right? Like, bunt didn't do anything. He's not a deal with it, but because he was interacted in the situation, like something, it's game on. So, like, I think that, like, I think pumpkin heads, like, oh, man, you're at this party and there's a guy here who's no good. So this. You got to die, too. So think about that. [01:27:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good point, Chris. That's good point. That's a great point. We're definitely not going to edit that out. [01:27:27] Speaker B: It's a perfect thing. Mickey, leave it in. [01:27:33] Speaker A: So I could have, like, listen, you don't need everything, like, laid out and explained to you all the time. No, but, like, the rules of pumpkin, I always like it when, like, a film sets rules that are, like, clearly defined within the story, through exposition, through whatever. Excuse me. So I kind of, like, I feel like there could have been some. Some clarity there. But, you know, I like, I like that it's like, so, Ed, is pumpkin head now? Or, like, what's, like, the questions left. It's kind of cool. And, like, you're left with, like, yeah, I was in the school, like, I did, did this course at the school of philosophy, which was, like, a fantastic course. And they talk about one of the things they teach you, right, is, like, next time you're, like, stuck in traffic or you're doing something mundane or boring or something that you're frustrated with, know that at some point in your life, something is going to happen that changes everything forever. You get into a car accident, you lose somebody close to you, and, like, how you will wish you were back at this mundane, boring, frustrating moment before this happened. You. You have choices that you get to make in life. [01:29:07] Speaker B: Sure. [01:29:08] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. And those choices matter, and Ed makes the wrong choice and, like, pays for it for an eternity. I don't know, but, like, no, nothing positive comes out of it. [01:29:22] Speaker B: No, no. [01:29:24] Speaker A: Other than, you know, you and I get to watch it and be entertained by it and, you know. But in the world of the film. [01:29:31] Speaker B: Yeah. In the story arc of it. Yeah. No, I agree. [01:29:34] Speaker A: It's not like Billy. It's not like Billy's gonna watch what's happening from heaven or whatever and be like, ah, dad, good job. [01:29:39] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [01:29:40] Speaker A: You know, I kind of like that. [01:29:42] Speaker B: Little moment there of, like, Billy. Like, you know, Ed having that moment of Billy being alive again and being like, daddy, what did you do? I was nice. [01:29:52] Speaker A: There's a little, like, pet sematary. [01:29:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:55] Speaker A: Stuff going on there. And, in fact, they directly referenced pet sematary and some of the sequels. Oh, really? And, like, yeah, pet sematary is, like, Stephen King lists it as, like, in his I to him. It's the most horrific thing he's ever written. Because it's about the loss of a child. [01:30:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:13] Speaker A: And it's fucking. It is a brutal book. [01:30:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:18] Speaker A: It's awful. I can't before. I imagine that's got to be one of the worst things in the world to live through, is either the loss of life, your love, whatever that love is, whether you're a partner or your child, you know? God, that's got to be awful. [01:30:35] Speaker B: Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. [01:30:39] Speaker A: Poor ed. [01:30:40] Speaker B: Poor Ed. Never saw it coming. Just wanted to go get that feed. I mean, I gotta say this, though. His kid failed the first test to run the store by himself. [01:30:49] Speaker A: Yeah. But it's fucking Gypsy's fault. God damn it. [01:30:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's true. [01:30:56] Speaker A: It's always somebody's fault. [01:30:58] Speaker B: Always somebody's fault. [01:31:00] Speaker A: Um, so, Chris. [01:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:31:05] Speaker A: Who do you recommend this to? Okay, who's walking into the video store? And you go, you know what? Few pumpkin head you come into the. [01:31:12] Speaker B: Store, and you're wearing some soiled brown clothes, and I say, do you get out? Do you get out? [01:31:22] Speaker A: You don't have any money. Get the fuck out of my store, you fucking poor piece of shit. [01:31:27] Speaker B: I'm saying, hey, do you want to watch a movie? That is a terrible tale about what can happen when city folks come around. By the way, I was decided to start taking the video store on the road to Trump rallies. Oh, that's okay, right? [01:31:45] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. But got to get it out. [01:31:48] Speaker B: Got to get it out there. No, I think, though, like, I think it's a great tale of revenge. I think it has its flaws, of course, like, we've talked about. I would probably recommend it to also anyone that can, like, not take it too seriously and have a laugh at Lance Hendrickson, some of his over the top stuff that he does in the film, some of the jokey stuff that we've talked about, like pumpkin head pulling the chain out and carving the cross. And then also, people that are big fans of drool. Lots of. Lots of drool in this film. [01:32:25] Speaker A: Can you imagine a makeout session between Pumpkinhead and a xenomorph? [01:32:30] Speaker B: I mean, you've been reading my fan fiction, clearly, so. Yes, I can. But what about. I mean, what about you? Who would you recommend this film to? [01:32:41] Speaker A: So do you want to do a Lance Henriksen double cult feature? [01:32:46] Speaker B: Oh, what would be the other one? [01:32:48] Speaker A: Near Dark Baby, which we're definitely gonna talk, talk about at some point in this podcast. I think this movie is, like, painfully sincere, and I think that's wonderful and beautiful. Despite any criticisms I may have about it, I love it. I think this is a great soundscape. It's great ambiance and atmosphere. It's. It's obviously has, like, amazing special effects. It's like, it's so strong in. In that aspect of it. The production design and the cinematography, like, all that stuff is amazing, and then it just lacks some direction and some nuance in the story for me. So it's definitely not something I would recommend to just anybody. You have to be, like, an aficionado to appreciate, I think this film. You have to, like, under. You have to appreciate, like, filmmaking in order to appreciate this film. I also. I wouldn't necessarily put this on the latter end of October. This is, like, a warm late September. This is. This is the. The harvest. The. On you say it. What's the name of the section? [01:34:09] Speaker B: This is the harvest society. [01:34:13] Speaker A: God damn, I can't believe you don't remember harvest. So harvest revenge society. Harvest revenge society. Reap what you sow. [01:34:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:22] Speaker A: To me is a. Is. Is a perfect, like, warm up to Halloween. You know what I mean? Like, this in particular, it definitely has a lot of autumn going on for it, and it has some pumpkins, but it's not as Halloween II as I would like for Halloween. And pumpkin head. I love the design. Be cool if maybe he had, like, like, some color in his eyes. [01:34:46] Speaker B: Yeah, agree. [01:34:47] Speaker A: Maybe. Yeah, maybe like, he had, like, I don't know. It's. It's. It's. They intentionally went like, we don't want him to look like a pumpkin, and that's cool. I mean, obviously, the thing is fucking. It looks amazing. It's iconic. Yeah, it's wonderful. It's so. It's great piece of art. I've, like, you know. Yeah, it's. It's. It's. A pumpkin head is amazing. Um, I would love to have a, like, a miniature of it. [01:35:12] Speaker B: I don't think I ever seen those before, but they got to be out there. [01:35:15] Speaker A: No, I did some research. They have them out. [01:35:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:19] Speaker A: Some of them are super. Some of them are super ridiculously expensive because they're, like. They're, um. Like, to scale. You know what I mean? Like. No, no. So it's like. It's. What do they call it when it's, like. It's the exact replica. Smaller. [01:35:38] Speaker B: Like. Yeah, it's like. [01:35:39] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [01:35:39] Speaker B: Six one six. The size of whatever it is. [01:35:43] Speaker A: Yeah. But it's like. It's identical, really, to the design. You know what I mean? And, like, they go for thousands of dollars, you know? They're amazing. Like, trick or street tricker? Trick. Trick or treat studios. We're not sponsored by them. I love to be. They have some pumpkin head models. They have models. You can. Like the kits. You can make your own pumpkin head. Your pumpkin head. Yeah. [01:36:07] Speaker B: I know. Getting you for your birthday. [01:36:11] Speaker A: Dude, if you got that for me, I think your wife would leave you because of how much money you spent on it. Those things are super expensive. I wouldn't be able to do anything. You know how much equipment I would have to buy? I looked into this because I was like, oh, dude, I would love to get, like, a classic Frankenstein model. Yeah, dude, you need airbrush tools. You need sculpture. Like, they're not. It's not just like you glue it together. It's like you. It's. These kits are put together by. By people who invest a lot of time and a lot of money into building these things. There's a lot of, like, sculpting and art involved and building, like, these model kits. [01:36:48] Speaker B: The perfect gift. Something that involves you needing to buy a whole bunch of other shit. [01:36:55] Speaker A: I have so much cool shit, like, just shoved into my closet in the corner, you know what I mean? Because Ali's like, you know, we gotta, like, you know, make space. I live with someone who's not into the stuff, you know what I mean? [01:37:06] Speaker B: So I get it. Yeah. [01:37:10] Speaker A: Mickey, we love you. We miss you. [01:37:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:13] Speaker A: Happy Halloween, listeners. Thank you for spending your Halloween season with us. We love you. We wish you the spookiest and most special of all Halloween's. We hope it's the best Halloween of your life this year, Chris. I hope this is the best Halloween. I'm closer to you now. We're linked. [01:37:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:31] Speaker A: I know about that guy you murdered. You know what I mean? Just you and me. [01:37:35] Speaker B: The only ones. This isn't getting released, right? [01:37:39] Speaker A: Where can, uh. Where can people find us, Chris? [01:37:41] Speaker B: Well, if you go to Instagram and you go to the return slot, underscore of horror pod. You'll see a site that will be posted more often than what I've been doing recently. [01:37:54] Speaker A: Are you adding anything? [01:38:01] Speaker B: And also, please check us out on YouTube. The return slot of horror podcasts, part of the Red Tower network. Am I saying that right? Okay, good. [01:38:14] Speaker A: Yeah. You can see us as our cartoons. [01:38:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Just know that my bit is bigger in real life than it is in the cartoon. [01:38:21] Speaker A: That's much bigger. [01:38:22] Speaker B: You should know much bigger. [01:38:27] Speaker A: Everything else is completely accurate. You are that big. You are that muscular. It's just the beard. Happy Halloween.