Dark Night of the Scarecrow (1981)

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome, listener, to the return slot, Halloween. [00:00:09] Speaker B: In horror. [00:00:12] Speaker A: A podcast recorded by myself, Michelangelo, and my absent co host, Mickey in the basement of our video store. After hours when the doors are locked, vhs are rewound, and the moon is glowing pale blue on a brisk and breezy autumn night, we like to hang out in the basement, light a pumpkin scented candle, crack open a pumpkin ale, and discuss our beloved genre, horror. Every episode. We invite you, dear listener, to join us for a frosty libation as we discuss a film selected for one of our painstakingly curated subsections of the video store. That's right, for the uninitiated, or anyone unlucky enough to have grown up without a video store. Chris, Chris, Chris, standing in for Mickey, semi permanent co host and and employee at the video store. Chris, can you elaborate on what I'm talking about? [00:01:17] Speaker B: Oh geez. Well, I can't do it how Mickey will do it, but I'll give it a go. So once upon a time, when streaming referred to waterways, not your fancy tv devices, and back when we thought blockbuster was a crappy corporate overlord, not with some romanticized bullshit by old man gen xers like today, you could visit your mom and pop video store and you'd be introduced to a world of horror films and be delighted and intrigued by box covers of films you had never heard of before. Case in point, Tezuto the Iron Man. I stared at that box cover whenever I was a kid and had no idea what the hell was going on. And I watch it and still don't know what the hell was going on. But you could have a go through this process of finding yourself via the shelves of amazing horror films not suggested by some sort of algorithm by big brother capitalism. [00:02:11] Speaker A: Boo. [00:02:13] Speaker B: You can't ask Netflix about Tezuto the Iron man. You might type it in, but you can't ask him. You could the cleric at the local video store. And that's the kind of warm hug embrace of nostalgia that we want to give to you, the listener. [00:02:31] Speaker A: So I'm going to warn you, listener. [00:02:35] Speaker B: Now, maybe they should have come before that. [00:02:40] Speaker A: Yeah, this. This is a hangout drink and talk with movies with your friends. Podcast. This. This podcast is just as much about us as it is about the horror films that you've just, you know, you've chimed in to listen to. So be warned. And like I said earlier tonight, we are joined by our now my, my now semi permanent co host, his first time co hosting. It's just the two of us tonight, Chris, I think best friend, soulmate the title, I think. Business venture. [00:03:15] Speaker B: Maybe I can be the viceroy of the video store. How's that sound, Vice? [00:03:19] Speaker A: What's the guy's name from Road Warrior? What's the bad guy's name? [00:03:25] Speaker B: Oh, shit. [00:03:30] Speaker A: The hockey mask. [00:03:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, fucked. How about this? Can I be toe cutter? I can remember his name. [00:03:39] Speaker A: Humongous. Lord Humongous. [00:03:40] Speaker B: Lord Humongous. Yes, I'll be lord Humongous of the video store. [00:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So, Chris. [00:03:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:51] Speaker A: It's the Halloween season. [00:03:53] Speaker B: It's spooky out there. [00:03:55] Speaker A: It is spooky. It is wonderful. We got the Halloween decorations up. There's pumpkin ales and October fests everywhere. Um, uh, what's, uh, what's your harvest this year? [00:04:09] Speaker B: All harvest came in good. Got me a lot of shares per the crop. [00:04:13] Speaker A: Uh huh. Chris grows a lot of things in his backyard. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Yeah, no, we have. We've been, the wife and I have been harvesting apples recently. It's been a good, successful season. I know that a unit of measurement for a lot of crops is a peck. So I don't really know how big a peck is. So I'm going to say we had a Gregory peck of apples that we brought in this year. [00:04:44] Speaker A: That'll tie in with tonight's film. You'll see. You'll see how I make that tie in. [00:04:51] Speaker B: I'm excited now. [00:04:53] Speaker A: Not just the harvest, but Gregory peck specifically. Try to remind me, okay? Gregory peck working to work into all this. Um, so, you know, it's Chris and I tonight. The parents are gone. Um, uh, it's a brisk and beautiful autumn night. We can see our breath. Um, we have some pizza. We got some Pepsi's. [00:05:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:18] Speaker A: We got mortal Kombat two. [00:05:20] Speaker B: Hell, yeah. [00:05:21] Speaker A: On the Nesdez super Nintendo, we're gonna be playing games and watching movies all night. What are you, what are you having to drink tonight before we get to the film? [00:05:34] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:05:35] Speaker A: Did you prepare a spooky cocktail? [00:05:37] Speaker B: I did. I did. This is a little play on the classic cocktail of dark and stormy. I'm calling this a dark and stormy scarecrow. Frighten you? Don't look frightened. That didn't work. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Trust me. I'm mortified. [00:05:54] Speaker B: Okay, good, good. This is 1oz of rye whiskey, 2oz of a good spicy ginger beer, and 2oz of apple cider mix up together. You got a little taste of fall. You got a little. Little spice on the ginger. It's really nice. Very playful. [00:06:13] Speaker A: I'm I'm a firm believer that adding dry ice to any cocktail is going to make it more spooky. [00:06:18] Speaker B: Oh, so you'll do that? [00:06:20] Speaker A: Is it safe to do that? [00:06:21] Speaker B: I don't. [00:06:23] Speaker A: As long as you don't drink the dry ice. Right? [00:06:25] Speaker B: You should put your face in the dry ice. Let's find out. Well, Jason x you. Oh, and Michelangelo. Wait, was that. Okay, you're pointing. That means I'm pointing at me so. [00:06:41] Speaker A: That you ask me questions. [00:06:43] Speaker B: Oh, right. I knew that. I knew that. So if you were a drink, what would you be having right now? I fucked that up. Oh, no. How about, what are you drinking tonight? Is that better? [00:06:57] Speaker A: This is. Mickey's gonna have a lot of work editing this. [00:07:01] Speaker B: Oh, you think? [00:07:02] Speaker A: Jesus. In honor of Mickey and fellow Texan. Mickey's Texan. I'm not Texan. Fellow Texan. The writer of the film we'll be talking about tonight, I'm having some Lone star. I know it's not exactly a Halloween beverage. It's no pumpkin ale. But, you know, in honor of Mickey and the writer of this amazing movie we'll be talking about tonight. So, Chris, this is your first Halloween working at the video store, and, like, a rite of passage when you work at the video store is, like, creating sections, right? Especially at this video store, because we have so many ridiculous subsections. So you made your own subsection for this year's Halloween event. So what? Like, what's the. I. You told me the movies you picked, but what's the name of the section? [00:07:56] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. No. So this is. You know, this is a perfect encapsulation here of the films that we're going to be talking about. You know, I think. Hold on to your butts. This is the harvest revenge squad. Reap what you sow. [00:08:16] Speaker A: I like that. You really went for it. It's like. It's. Harvest revenge Squad. Reap what you sow. Ellipses. There's an ellipses in there? [00:08:29] Speaker B: Yeah. You don't say ellipses. [00:08:31] Speaker A: You don't say ellipses. But there is an ellipses in there. I love how long it is. [00:08:36] Speaker B: I mean, I feel like it could have been longer because, I mean, that's only seven words. I mean, that should at least be 14, but that, you know, I'll work on. Maybe we'll have something more on the. Maybe a sub else's for the next episode. [00:08:49] Speaker A: Anyways, I love it. Harvest revenge Squad, reap what you sow. And it makes complete. I mean, that's. I mean, you hit the nail on the head with this, because, like, yeah, that's exactly what these movies are about. So let's get to the movie. Tonight. We're talking about a made for tv film written by JD Figgleson. He's the texan I was talking about earlier with editorial notes by Ray Bradbury. More on that later. And directed by novelist Frank DeFaletta, this CB's Saturday night movie premiered precisely one week before Halloween, October 24, 1981. We're talking about Dark Knight of the Scarecrow. [00:09:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Chris, um, I guess this is like a two, like a three part question, right? Because it's, it's why Dark Knight of the Scarecrow? And what's your history and relationship with the film, but also why this specific section for Halloween? [00:09:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you know that, you know me well enough. I love revenge films, right? So why not marry that retribution, the revenge to the season? And we've got two films I think nail this perfectly. This film is a great one for the season. You introduced me to this a couple years ago. Hasn't been long. I've only seen it now a couple times, and I really enjoy it. And I feel like this is one of those, you know, I think this is a perfect Halloween movie for me, I think in a lot of ways, because it's, it tells a unique story. It's tied to the season. It's tied to the season two in a location that you're not necessarily always tied to for Halloween. You know, a little more. It's a. They never really say exactly where it is, but you definitely have a Texas southern vibe to it. [00:10:56] Speaker A: Very rural. Rural. [00:10:58] Speaker B: Rural reminds me a lot of my mom's side of the family is from southeast Missouri. They're farmers croppers. So. Definitely reminds me of that kind of feeling to it. And, and, you know, you got this perfect little story based around what a quintessential Halloween character, the scarecrow. Pretty perfect, man. [00:11:20] Speaker A: It's funny how it's like the scarecrow becoming like a quintessential, like, Halloween, like american Halloween figure, you know? [00:11:31] Speaker B: I mean, you know, that's a. Yeah, I think that's a good point. I mean, definitely, like, uh, you know, it's really something that would be more in use in some, like mid to late summer than it would be in like mid to late fall, like around Halloween, to your point. But, but, yeah, no, I think that like, you know, it's just got a bit of an ominous feeling to it. Have you, uh. Have you ever come across a scarecrow in real life? [00:11:58] Speaker A: No. I mean, so as a kid, every year, we would take, like, my dad's old work shirt and work pants and boots and like, make a scarecrow. And the head would be, uh, a trick or treating, uh, Jack o'lantern pail. [00:12:13] Speaker B: Oh, that's awesome. [00:12:13] Speaker A: So we would, like, we would rake the le. We'd have to rake the leaves, right? And we would stuff the scarecrow, be made out of, like, the foliage, and we. So we would have a scarecrow as Halloween decoration and our front lawn. But I have never. Now that I'm thinking about this for the first time, I have never come across, like, a legitimate, like, in real life scarecrow. Have you grown up and you were closer to farm country than I was? [00:12:42] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I came across them a few times, and I remember being very scared of them whenever I was a little kid because I thought it was like an ominous, shadowy figure, because you can't really see it very well whenever you're far away. [00:12:54] Speaker A: Terrifying. Yeah. [00:12:55] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's like, you know, disjointed, like a mannequin, you know, that type of thing. So I remember, like, seeing, like, a few, but I mean, like, I haven't seen one in years. You know what I mean? Like, does anyone still do it? I don't know, but, yeah, I remember being pretty scared of them whenever I was a kid, I think. Always enjoying scarecrows then as I got older. So probably one reason why this film has a soft place in my heart. But, Michelangelo, what's your history with the film? As you introduced me to it, you would have earlier knowledge than me. [00:13:26] Speaker A: So I came, like, whenever it was that I told you about this, you're saying it's like two years, but I'm feeling like it's more like five. I'm terrible with time. [00:13:39] Speaker B: You might have. I just watched it a couple years ago for the first time, but you might have told me about it earlier than that. [00:13:44] Speaker A: So I feel like I watched it about five years ago, and this was a. I went down the rabbit hole of, like, I'm always thirsty for new Halloween stuff. And I'm particularly partial to, like, Halloween broadcasts from the eighties and the nineties and made for television movies. There's the midnight hour, which I came across many years ago, which is a television. I think that was an ABC, maybe all star cast. Check it out if you haven't seen it. But anyways, I'm going down a rabbit hole looking for something new. And on YouTube, I find, like, some channel had a rip of this, and it was, like, a really super low quality rip of it. It wasn't a, like, the restored version the first time I saw it. When you watched it the first time, was it the restored, the VCI entertainment restoration? [00:14:48] Speaker B: I assume so. It was on shutter. So that would have been it, right? [00:14:52] Speaker A: No, that's. That's the restoration. Yeah. In fact, in the post credits, you'll see there's a. There's. After the credits, after the original credits, there's a restoration. Credits giving credit to everyone involved in the restoration of it. So I. Mine. I mean, I watched it. It was like, vhs quality, but, like, I loved it. It was like. It was very atmospheric, it was slow. It was very. It's got, you know, it's got the Halloween party in it. It's got the wind and the cicada. I mean, the soundscape of this film begs to be like, there's lots of people on YouTube who make soundscapes of, like, Halloween. The thing, like, you know, films, you love the soundscapes. It's like, this needs a soundscape. It's gorgeous. And I was just. I just. It was one of those things where it's, like, I was reluctant to necessarily recommend it because it was like, I loved it so much, but I don't know. It's not everyone's cup of tea. I really think you need patience for this movie. I think if you look up a lot of reviewers out there, they're like, it's boring. Nothing happens. There's no gore. There's. There. [00:16:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it's made for tv movie. Not gonna be gore. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Yeah. But I think they do a great. It's very Hitchcock hour, and it very, very much takes a page out of the Hitchcock. Hitchcock notebook of, like, of, like, the implied violence, you know? [00:16:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:30] Speaker A: Like, the way they edit when someone dies, it's like you're seeing it in your mind's eye. They do a really good job of. And no blood, except for some preserves. [00:16:42] Speaker B: Oh, is that the. The gunshots? [00:16:44] Speaker A: No, no, no. When we'll get there. But when Harlis. When Harlis dies in the chipper, the wood chipper or whatever that is, uh, it cuts to breakfast. Oh, and Otis. Otis preserves, the strawberry preserves or cherry preserves, I'm assuming. Strawberry. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Um, I think, though, like, for me, it's. It's interesting, right? Because, like. And I think maybe because of the fact that going into it, I knew it was made for tv, but, like, the way that Bubba's killed, like, I was like, I feel like that's like it's kind of jarring. You know what I mean? Like, it it. It's not graphic, but it's graphic enough. You know what I mean? Like, the gunshots feel very visceral to me. Much more than you would expect on a made for tv movie from 19 years. 81. Yeah. [00:17:37] Speaker A: You know. Do you remember how many times they shot Bubba? [00:17:40] Speaker B: Oh, I'm gonna say he's a 2221-2121 it's a little too perfect. A number should have gone with, like, a 22 or 20, I feel like. [00:17:56] Speaker A: So, yeah, let's. Let's jump into it. Great score by Glenn Paxton. [00:18:02] Speaker B: I feel very mixed on it. There's some stuff that really works for me. And there's some stuff I feel is, like, unusual. Especially in the beginning, the back half of the film, I feel like I like the score better than the first half. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Okay. [00:18:14] Speaker B: I don't know why. It just has a bit of an odd sound to me. I was kind of thinking about that on the rewatch. There's just some scenes that I feel like. It's like, oh, that's perfect. And, like, in the beginning, I think some of the setup, I feel like it's a little off. [00:18:26] Speaker A: Are you familiar with that song they're singing at the top? [00:18:28] Speaker B: No. Never heard of it before. [00:18:30] Speaker A: I tried looking it up. This, this. So this is what I got. Cause I was trying to see if there was a. Obviously, there's a theme with flowers, and it's very. I thought it was very reminiscent that this top scene with Mary Lee and Bubba of Frankenstein. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. [00:18:46] Speaker A: The original Frankenstein with. With the flowers and the little girl in the pond all the flowers that I've seen growing in the field so gay to brighten up our way red and yellow, green and blue growing in my garden too flowers seem to smile with glee just for you and me just for you and me uh, it. [00:19:08] Speaker B: Doesn'T quite work for me. You have to sing it. [00:19:11] Speaker A: All the flowers that I've seen growing in the field so gay I don't. I turned that into a Christmas. [00:19:19] Speaker B: Yeah. What song were you singing? Something else. [00:19:26] Speaker A: Anyway, um, I love all the actors in this film. It has a very, uh, like, repertory theater. [00:19:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:35] Speaker A: Vibe to it. And I love the ensemble of our xenophobic mob of lily livered southern scumbags, Otis, skeeter, Philby and Harlis. Every time they're on screen together, it's. It's brilliance. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I like that. Yeah. I like the core group of them, you know? Definitely. I think especially on this rewatch, I feel like I have a lot of, like, questions. You know what I mean? Like, what exactly is their group dynamic? [00:20:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Question. Yeah. [00:20:10] Speaker B: Like, I get, obviously, that Hazelrigg is the leader. But, like, how are they exactly drawn together beyond the bullying of bubba? You know what I mean? [00:20:20] Speaker A: Like, I think that's. It's their common hatred for this pariah. [00:20:26] Speaker B: Is it? But they got nothing else. You know what I mean? [00:20:30] Speaker A: According to my research, Philby and Harless are cousin farmers. I guess that's a. That's. That's a line in there to let you know that their cousin. Their cousin farmer did. [00:20:43] Speaker B: Nice catch that. [00:20:45] Speaker A: And, you know, it is. It seems like a very, very small town, obviously. [00:20:49] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:20:50] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think they're. It's like, I want to get into Otis here. Okay, first of all, Charles Dunning. [00:21:02] Speaker B: Yeah, let's. Yeah, we can. We can get into all this love. Yeah. [00:21:04] Speaker A: Love Charles Dunning. [00:21:05] Speaker B: He's awesome. Always love him. [00:21:07] Speaker A: Larry Drake's wonderful. Made a career out of playing, like, kind of a slow guy, but, like. [00:21:14] Speaker B: Half of his career. It's weird, right? [00:21:16] Speaker A: I know, but the other half is like, crazy bad guys, dark man and. [00:21:20] Speaker B: Doctor gibbles and like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. [00:21:25] Speaker A: But he's like you. I'm always surprised how little he is in the movie. Yeah, right. Because it's. It's, um. He's Robert J. Coster, who plays the scarecrow throughout the rest of the film. [00:21:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Standing in. [00:21:43] Speaker A: So, like, Larry, like, amazingly enough, this movie was shot in 17 days, which is crazy to think about. And Larry Drake, like, I, like, I can't imagine he shot for more than a week. [00:21:57] Speaker B: If that only got, I mean, what, maybe ten minutes of film time. I mean, pretty quick. [00:22:03] Speaker A: That's his first big job. It's Charles Dunning's first big job. Lane Smith as Harliss. He's great. My cousin Vinny, a bunch of stuff. And then, of course, did you notice misses bunch of the boarding house. Are you familiar with who she is? [00:22:21] Speaker B: No. [00:22:22] Speaker A: That's Alice Nunn. That's large march. [00:22:26] Speaker B: No way. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Yeah, she's been in a bunch of stuff. She's been in a bunch of stuff. And then Bubba's mom. Bubba, bub buh buh buh. What's her name? [00:22:37] Speaker B: Oh, I have it here. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Misses Ritter. Jocelyn Brando, Marlon Brando's sister. [00:22:43] Speaker B: You know, it's funny cause actually on this rewatch, I was like, man, she's got this facial feature that looks really familiar to me. And I was like, oh, yep, the jaw is straight. Brando. [00:22:56] Speaker A: And the nose, I think the nose too. Uh, but, okay, so Bubba and Mary Lee, who is played by Tanya Crow, who's amazing in this, she's got real. She's got like, if she's got real, like Shane black little girl vibes. You know what I mean? Like Shane black loves to put like a really smart, older, older than she seems, you know, beyond age, beyond her years sort of girl in his movies. And like, she is, she is like that archetype. She's really good. She's, she's super cute and she's just like. Yeah, she's just a really good actor. Yeah, no, she's got this relationship with Bubba and she's really getting Bubba into trouble. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, she's trouble. Yeah, absolutely. Like, uh, like she's the, she's the bad influence. She's going to cause the downfall and does, yeah. [00:24:01] Speaker A: Her need to want to smoke a pipe like a gnome. [00:24:06] Speaker B: Okay, let's get into that real quick. [00:24:08] Speaker A: Okay. [00:24:09] Speaker B: Did the dog attack her because she was in the backyard or cuz he didn't like the way she was mocking the gnomes? [00:24:17] Speaker A: I think it was that. The ladder. The ladder. Is that how you. Is that. Yeah, yeah, the ladder. The ladder. [00:24:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:24:24] Speaker A: I think. [00:24:25] Speaker B: I think. I think that that dog in the gnome statues of friends, he saw her doing her. He's like, fuck you, man, my friend. Which, by the way, tears her apart and then she's fine later. You know what I mean? [00:24:45] Speaker A: Like, like tv movie. [00:24:47] Speaker B: When she's in bubbles arms, she's like a bloody, like the next scene, she's like, nothing happened. That's just kids, man. [00:24:56] Speaker A: They're made out of rubber. They bounce right back. [00:24:58] Speaker B: You're not wrong. That's true. [00:25:00] Speaker A: And they didn't have money in the budget to apply all the little, all the little cuts and scrapes. But you get it. You know, like, it's like, you get it. It's almost like it's like going to the theater. You know what I mean? It's just like, okay, I'm going to suspend my disbelief and I'm just going along, going along with all these things I say. A key element for like Larry Drake, who is playing bubba. Right. And it's a key element for any, any of these. Like, uh, there's a character in the play, uh, by Martin McDonough, pillow man. There's um, of course of mice and men. It's like, you know, you don't play the disability essentially. What they are is just like, uh, children and men's bodies. Sure, right. [00:25:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:52] Speaker A: I mean, I I think he conveys that, that, that childlike innocence quite well with an understanding at this point. I think the story does a very good job of, like, Bubba knows the town does not like him and that he gets into trouble for things. You know what I mean? He's not an idiot. He's just kind of stuck. Developed at like. Like a twelve. Like a twelve year old or something, you know? [00:26:18] Speaker B: I think. I think the line is that he's the same age as her mentally. You know what I mean? That type of thing. Yeah. I mean, he's a little heavy handed with it. You know what I mean? Which was acceptable for the time, for, you know, now it's a little. It's a little over the top, but for the time, it was. It was. [00:26:35] Speaker A: Hey, it's. It's no Sean Penn. No, I am. No, I am Sam. Or Sam. [00:26:43] Speaker B: I am Sam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's not that bad. I definitely agree. But, like, definitely, like those little, like, the going to his mom. His speech is a little. Or not. Their little back and forths a little. [00:26:56] Speaker A: Like, I like the thing they figured out that, like, oh, he goes and he hides in plain sight. I kind of like that. It's fun. [00:27:04] Speaker B: It's not as. I mean, like, again, to your point, the suspension of disbelief. But, yeah. There's no way that that is safer than just hiding in the house. [00:27:13] Speaker A: Like, you can't come into my home. No world. [00:27:16] Speaker B: That's not a better option. [00:27:19] Speaker A: No, I mean, you do make a good point. It's like, like, instead of hiding somewhere in the house and, like, having legal grounds and, like, being there to witness anything and, like, put him out in the field where he could get shot 21 times. [00:27:34] Speaker B: Middle of field. Yeah. No, that's not like, any. Because it worked once, evidently, because they didn't have the dogs, as it goes. [00:27:42] Speaker A: And I say, I mean, like that. That scene where they. They're. They have the dogs. They find the scarecrow, that entire chunk right there. I mean, you're watching this for the first time and you're like, it's a tv movie. It's. It's, you know, it's a very slow pace. Guy is like, slow or something. Like, you know, you're waiting for the moment. You know, you see Charles Dunning, you're like, okay, Charles Dunning. If you know Charles Dunning, you know, it's like, oh, okay. He's got. He's weird. I. What's his obsession with this little girl? And why does he hate this guy so much? We'll get to that. But, like, that's the first moment in the movie that's, like, just riveting for me. It's that whole scene, it's intense, and you're just like, okay, this is good enough to carry me through the rest of this film, no matter how slow it might be. That was sort of my experience watching it. It was like, I'm into the vibes. I'm into the atmosphere. Is this going to bore me to death, or am I going to fall asleep? And that, like, I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is insane. [00:28:52] Speaker B: That's kind of interesting to your point. Like, I know you kind of brought up here and you brought up, like, you know, um, some people have kind of that feedback on this that it's, like, too slow, too boring a film and all that. But for me, at least, I feel like it gets into the action really quickly. I mean, that first little, you know, the setting up the relationship between Bubba and, um. What's the little girl's name? [00:29:12] Speaker A: Mary Lee. [00:29:13] Speaker B: Mary Lee is like, you know, it's like a little five minute, and it's. That's a little slow, but it's like, it's only like five, maybe ten minutes, and then you're into it with the dog and all that, you know, and then it's just. It kicks into high gear real quick, so. And then from there, like, you know, after, of course, like, the murder happens, like, you want to see them get the comeuppance and, you know, it's going to be good. [00:29:34] Speaker A: It's going to be good. I love on the radio, like, immediately after they kill him, they're just like, he was innocent. He saved her. [00:29:41] Speaker B: He saved her life. He's a hero. The mayor's giving her a kid. Him a key to the city. Where you guys at? [00:29:48] Speaker A: What you do, and I want to be with you guys. [00:29:50] Speaker B: Come on. I'm coming. I got mirrors. Where you at? Let's hang out. How come we don't talk anymore? CB radios are cool, aren't they? [00:30:01] Speaker A: Oh, the. This is a funny thing to say after that, but, like, the pact, like, forged when people commit atrocities, like, the pack that, like, these guys are in, whatever, why ever, who, for whatever reason, these guys are friends. They hang out together. Maybe it's because they like to drink. [00:30:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:25] Speaker A: Maybe it's because, I mean, you kind of, like, Otis is obviously an outsider trying to fit into the community, in my opinion. And then Skeeter just seems like a weirdo outsider, and, like, the only thing keeping him tethered to the community is the fact that he has an essential business. But, like, yeah, it's Philby and Harliss. I don't quite. I guess they're just kind of bullies and they, like, picking on an easy target. [00:30:54] Speaker B: Well, like, yeah, I mean, they seem like there's an age disconnect. Like, they seem older than Larry Drake. So it's not like they're like, they bullied him in high school and now they're adults and they've continued it. At least. That's kind of my feel on it, you know? I feel like, especially like, Charles Durning and my cousin Vinnie prosecutor Lane Smith. [00:31:16] Speaker A: They just call him Harlis and Otis. Bubba and bubba. [00:31:22] Speaker B: But, like, so then, like, I guess that's my thing. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like there's more to there. Like, are they, like, are they, like, the local clan that then also, because there's no one that's not white in this film, of course. So is that. Because then. So he's the representation, then, of the thing that's different. And so thus they want to lean it out of the community, because that's kind of the speech in the beginning that Charles durning kind of gives a bit of, uh. When he's talking to Harlan. It's almost like, you know, because he kind of almost brings up killing him before the thing, before Harlas. Harlas. Sorry, the harlot. He kind of talks about killing him, and. And he's like, no, I'm not going to go that far. Like, I'll. You know, I'll. I can't remember exactly the words. He's like. [00:32:15] Speaker A: He's basically like, I'll kick him around and have some fun, but, like, I'm not going to kill the guy. [00:32:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:20] Speaker A: Unless he does something. [00:32:21] Speaker B: And that's. Then, yeah, it opens that up, of course, which, you know, that. That brings me to something else I kind of thought about in this rewatch. So, you know, they use the hounds to find him. Right. But, like, dogs can pick up on someone's scent and find it if you have something of their scent. So did these group of, like, creepy bullies have some of his clothes or something, you think? Like, well, the day ever comes, we got some of his clothes. I can see the dog. [00:32:48] Speaker A: I can see Otis, like. Like, sneaking a bandana or something. Got his bandana. Just in case. Just in case. [00:32:58] Speaker B: Just in case. [00:33:03] Speaker A: Now, of course, these guys get off on killing them, and they also get off. What? [00:33:11] Speaker B: Oh, no, go ahead. Oh, I like where you're going with that. [00:33:13] Speaker A: And they get off from the, uh, from the judge, from the prosecution. Um, and I can kind of, like. I kind of. Get it from the judge's point of view, there is no solid evidence. Obviously, that's. That's the most important thing. But also, it's like, this is a very small community, and condemning these men. Right. And putting them away would affect the community in a very large way, especially because it's like Harliss and. And Philby seem to be, and Skeeter, they all seem to own, like, essential businesses in the town. So I think there is that, like. Like, whether the judge believes or not. You know what I mean? The lack of evidence, and then, like, yeah, it's. It's. It's like you're going to ruin these guys. These guys lives without the. Like, I I don't agree with it. I don't condone it. I'm just saying, like, I kind of see why you would obviously, without evidence, not want to destroy your town. [00:34:19] Speaker B: Michelangelo believes in murder. I get it. Like, you, if you are wealthy enough and powerful enough and you can prove your value enough, you can do whatever you want. I get it. I get it. [00:34:31] Speaker A: I mean. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. [00:34:36] Speaker B: I know. So real quick, though, too, I love the fact that, like, okay, so, like, the. Our Cb friend jumps on to be like, you know, boba's a hero. He's the guy. Where you at? Charles darning? I love the fact that he is like, oh, well, we need to kind of make it look like we didn't just straight up murder him. I'm going to put a pitchfork in his hand. Like, there's no, like, you know what I mean? Like, not even trying to almost suggest, like, okay, we're going to stab you in the arm with it. You know what I mean? Or anything like that. It's like, we'll just put a pitchfork in his hand and even, like, he can't even hold it, and it falls like this. Like, he's like, fuck. Like, come on, guys, let me form his dead fingers around this thing. They'll get it propped up, right? Yeah. And also, too, his arms are hooked on the cross, you know what I mean? So he would. He couldn't even do anything with the pitchfork. He would have had to have pulled his arm out of the rope loop to do anything. Like, it's. It's so, like. But that's, like, classic, like, right? Like, small town thing, too. And, I mean, you hear tales of it today of, like, you know, really murders that are just sometimes, like, yeah, it happened, but, man, we're not gonna do anything about it. That type of thing. And I think the kind of, like, messed up part of that, too, is like, it's not even a trial or anything. It was like an arraignment. You know what I mean? [00:35:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:56] Speaker B: He's like, yeah, it's not enough evidence to move forward with a trial, so I'm just gonna dismiss it. It's like, damn. Didn't even let it get to a trial. 21, gunshot death, when you had nothing. [00:36:09] Speaker A: For four men with guns versus a guy with an apparent pitchfork. [00:36:14] Speaker B: Developmentally disabled Scarecrow man doesn't seem like a fair fight. [00:36:19] Speaker A: That's a good title for a movie. [00:36:21] Speaker B: Developmentally disabled man with a pitchfork. [00:36:24] Speaker A: Yes. Like hobo with a shotgun. [00:36:26] Speaker B: I was gonna say the unofficial sequel to Hobo. [00:36:32] Speaker A: Um, so, you know, mama bubba, mama mama bubba. Mama bubba misses ritter. She says. She says, I dropped all my notes. Other justices in this world besides the law. [00:37:01] Speaker B: Also don't forget. And then don't forget the district attorney, Sam, being like, all I need is one shred. One shred of evidence, and I'll take you. I'll take you to death. [00:37:16] Speaker A: It's a little. That whole scene is a little pushy. [00:37:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:20] Speaker A: Like, actors with small parts really trying to make a meal. Meal out of what's. What's going on, you know? [00:37:27] Speaker B: I feel like that's, like, the, like, one of the flaws of the movie, if I will. Like. And don't get me wrong, I really like it, but one of the flaws of the movie is, like, they want to, like, give you, like, those, like, alternative thoughts of who's really doing it. You know what I mean? It's not the supernatural. It's not Bubba. It's someone, you know, doing these revenge killings afterwards. And there's the thought of, like, Sam, the district attorney, and it's like they tried shoehorn. I feel like they wanted that outcome. And then they shoehorned. Yeah. And they shoehorned him into that. Like, how they wrote his lines, which then don't really make logical sense. You know what I mean? That he would feel this way, like, especially later when we see him. I will talk. We'll get to that part. But, yeah, I feel like. I mean, his character doesn't really add up to me. [00:38:18] Speaker A: There's no. I mean, like, obviously. And it's like Otis thinking it's then the little girl. [00:38:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:38:24] Speaker A: You know what I mean? It's crazy. Yeah, Otis. So, okay, my. One of my. [00:38:31] Speaker B: Can I get into this? Yeah. [00:38:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So, one of my favorite scenes, and I think it tells us a lot about Otis, is when Philby sees the scarecrow, or, no, Harla sees the scarecrow, and then they all get together and. Great scene in the diner, right, where he confronts Philby and Skeeter. Right. And then they go to Otis's place. [00:38:59] Speaker B: The boarding house. [00:39:01] Speaker A: The boarding house. Now, first of all, do you think Otis served? [00:39:09] Speaker B: Yes. Okay. Yeah. I really want to talk about his character, because I don't get that feeling. And there's nothing about his actions that line that up. Like, he has some of, like, you know, that, like, military like, stuff in his room. [00:39:22] Speaker A: He's got Napoleon, he's got Patton. He's got the guns. He's got some war relics. He's got the. [00:39:29] Speaker B: Like. He seems like a fanboy of it. You know what I mean? He doesn't seem like he was actually someone who, like. Yeah, I served especially. [00:39:40] Speaker A: Okay. [00:39:40] Speaker B: Like, so this is 81. He's. I don't know how old of a man you think he is. Maybe 50 or 60. [00:39:47] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:39:48] Speaker B: Something like that. Well, okay, so, like, let's say, what would that mean, right? [00:39:51] Speaker A: Charles Dunning looked like old his entire life. [00:39:54] Speaker B: He did. He did. That's true. So, like, I don't know. I mean, what would that mean then? Like, he would be, you know, probably serve, like. Like, end of Korea, war, you know, something like that. He doesn't strike me as that. It doesn't seem like he, like, spent time in Korea. It seems like he probably is just, like, you know, like, oh, yeah, no, I can't serve or for whatever reason, and now he's, like, a fanboy of it. [00:40:14] Speaker A: See, strikes me I'm in a similar lane with you in that. I think he. He was. He desperately wanted to serve but didn't pass, like, the physical or the psych. [00:40:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:40:28] Speaker A: So what does he do? He takes the. He can't get a job as a cop, so, like, the only job he can get that has any kind of authority, that has a uniform where he can wear the uniform and a pith helmet. Mailman. [00:40:42] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Yeah, the pith helmets. I like how often he's wearing it, too. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I think he. Because I think he takes his role as the pale man very seriously because he lacks. He has this, like, empty thing in him from not being able to, like, go to war. This is all. This is all just me putting this. [00:41:08] Speaker B: But I think that that's. I think understanding Otis a little more is, like, kind of an interesting thing, because there's a lot of, like, little things in the film that you're, like. Like, okay, so, for instance, maybe a segue to that. [00:41:20] Speaker A: Hold on, hold on. Can I, can I just. Before you segue. [00:41:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:23] Speaker A: This is all very ironic because Charles Dunning, I don't know if you know this, was a highly decorated war hero. Did you know this? [00:41:31] Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead. [00:41:32] Speaker A: So just, I'm going to really look this up, but I'm going to really quickly go, go through this. He was the only one in his unit to survive Normandy beach on D Day. He was injured by a german landmine, recovered, went back to war, was stabbed by a bayonet, was captured by Nazis in the battle of the Bulge, and survived the melody massacre. I'm not saying it right. He survived the massacre after being a prisoner of war, then took a bullet to the chest when his infantry was moving into Germany in 1945. He has three Purple Hearts and a silver star. And he never, ever talked about his service. And to boot, he was kicked out of acting school because he didn't have any talent. He would go on to like, have like 250 plus credits or something like that. It was crazy. I think he worked, his last movie was, I think in 2015, and it was like a horror film where he played like a Santa Claus character for like the fourth or fifth time in his career. [00:42:40] Speaker B: He was working pretty much until he died. [00:42:42] Speaker A: An amazing talent, an amazing life. Wow, what a free. The thing that sucks about these guys, Christopher Lee's another one of these guys who served and did all these things in the further for their country during the most epic war of all time. It's great and humbling that they didn't talk about these things. But what sucks is it's like all these stories are now gone. You know what I mean? Who's like, it just. It'd be great to. For. If like someone had like, taken it upon themselves to like, write and maybe this does exist. Maybe I don't. I'm not aware of it, but like a Charles Dunning biopic biography, you know what I mean? Like, I would love to hear about it. Sounds like a, like, like what a wild life this guy had. [00:43:36] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, I think there's something to that though, right? Of like, I think a lot of the guys that do have these amazing lives in which they do all the service, they don't really talk about it, you know what I mean? [00:43:47] Speaker A: Like, well, that kind of goes hand in hand, right? You know, like the guy who served, who loves talking about it, you know, like, they're usually not. Not that it's exclusive to this. This is why I really wish Mickey was washington. Um, but you were saying a segue into something about Otis. [00:44:05] Speaker B: Well, just like, okay, so, like, who is Otis? Hazelrig. Right. Okay, so, like, he. [00:44:10] Speaker A: I love that name. [00:44:11] Speaker B: Oh, it's great. Uh, he hides his drinking. Like, he's. He drinks, and he does the classic alcoholic. Like, he takes the drink, and when he hears someone knocking at the door, he does, like, the mouthwash. And then later at the party scene, like, the woman at the little punch thing knows, like, oh, you don't drink. So I'll give you the one that doesn't have any. [00:44:29] Speaker A: It's just like, you. It's. It's interesting to specifically have a reputation as, like, oh, I don't drink. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's not like. It's like. It's like a kind of hidden alcoholism, but it's like he doesn't want to be seen as a drinker. More importantly, like, that ruins the image that he has of him, which, to your point, right. That, like, image of, like, the regal, like, servicemen serving the community. Like, wouldn't. Wouldn't touch that stuff. It's poison. But then, meanwhile. Then behind closed doors is just guzzling it down kind of thing. [00:45:00] Speaker A: He's. That's such. So going to that scene in particular, um, it's the. The. So the shot of him sitting on the bed, and you have. You see all that war stuff, and then it cuts to him on the bed, and he's. He's sneaking a drink, right? And there's a painting, an oil painting above his bed, and it's like a sh. It's like a ship at sea, and the waters are of treacherous. And I think, like, there's probably some symbolism there as to, like, his inner turmoil and, like, what's going on inside of him. And then as we move over to his desk, which I love, by the way. I love a good folding secretary desk, but it's fitting for someone who. Him who seems to have a lot of secrets. And you have to be very organized when you have these secrets. Is he. Because there is the. The obvious thing. Is he a pedophile? [00:45:55] Speaker B: Yes, that's right. [00:45:56] Speaker A: What's his obsession with. With Mary Lee? Like, what's he seems. You know, he hides the drinking. He hides. And it's like a secretary desk has all these little compartments, and, like, everything is. I remember, I know someone who was a private investigator at one point, and one thing they said to me, I'm not going to tell you. Not on the podcast. One thing they said to me is, it's like, you know, the, like a disorganized person. You don't have to worry about. It's the person who has everything just so that's usually a sign of something. Right. Because you have to have everything organized in your life in order to prevent your secrets from spilling over. And his desk, that whole area is immaculate. The room is so clean. And I think that's. It's part of, like, that, like, you know, he doesn't want misses brunch in his room cleaning because she might find something. So he keeps it neat and, like, he never has anyone over. You know what I mean? That's another big thing. And, like, I get it. Like, boarding houses have rules, especially in this time period. But it's very telling how disturbed he is that these guys have come to see him. And the. They're. They're like, at the. The shot of them being at the bottom of the staircase and, like, they're so sheepish. Yeah. Yeah. And you see the three other guys who live there. They're sitting on the couch behind them, and sometimes you only see their legs. And then when you cut up behind again, behind Charles Dunning, behind Otis is an oil painting of, like, two children in a metal. [00:47:36] Speaker B: I didn't catch that. [00:47:37] Speaker A: Kind of reflective of where we find Bubba and Mary Lee at the beginning. And even the little boy in the painting has, like, overalls on. Right. So I think there's, you know, some symbol. And then when they go up into his room. [00:47:50] Speaker B: Oh, that's such a weird scene. Yeah. Right. [00:47:52] Speaker A: They're taking in his space. They obviously have never been in his space before. And it's a thing when you. When you go to, like, a friend's. When you enter someone's space that you know for the first time, it's like a thing. Right. [00:48:04] Speaker B: But it's almost like that even another higher level, though. It's almost like they're mystified by how he lives. You know what I mean? Like. Like, it's like another, like, even, like, beyond, like, just like going to your friend's house for the first time. It's almost like you're going into your, I don't know, cult leader's house for the first time, and you're like, well. [00:48:23] Speaker A: They definitely don't have an invitation. You know what I mean? [00:48:26] Speaker B: No, they do not. [00:48:26] Speaker A: He does not want them there under the guise of, like, we can't be seen together. Right. But I think there's. There's. There's obviously more going on beneath the surface, and. [00:48:37] Speaker B: And it doesn't even make sense. Right? Like, why? Like, oh, we can't be seen together. Like, no, they. They know what you did. You got off you. Being seen together isn't an issue. You know what I mean? Like, so that's Otis's own little story on it. The situation. It's his spin. It's got nothing to do with reality, you know? [00:48:56] Speaker A: And, like, there's, again, in that scene when they're having that conversation, but there's another painting of a ship at sea, and the waters are even more treacherous in that painting. It's not as focused as it is in the other one, but also, I think it's really interesting that, um, considering when we see Otis in his room for that first time and he's drinking, there's so many other things he could be doing, right? Could be napping. He could be polishing his shoes. He could be reading. He could be doing something creative or, like, productive or, like, uh, something, uh, productive as opposed to destructive. Right. When you drink alone, it's a very self destructive act. [00:49:43] Speaker B: Pretty judgmental, if you ask me. [00:49:46] Speaker A: Well, if you drink with the bloody. [00:49:48] Speaker B: Then it's a celebration in a dark, quiet room, drinking bourbon out of a glass bottle, staring into the void, disassociating, thinking about all your failings of life. Yes. And whether or not you're possibly a pedophile. [00:50:05] Speaker A: Yes. Drinking as a form of repression or punishment versus drinking responsibly in celebration or as a social lubricant in aid of celebratory events. [00:50:18] Speaker B: Is that the definition of alcoholism? What you look up? [00:50:21] Speaker A: No, that's just some note I wrote down. I thought I was very happy with what I wrote, and I was just reading it. [00:50:25] Speaker B: It sounded very official. I wasn't sure what you. [00:50:30] Speaker A: It is official. It's officially official, said abai toi moi. Not another, like, really, like, again, anytime these guys are on screen together, it's magic. [00:50:46] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:50:48] Speaker A: You know, they're like four wonderful character actors who were in a ton of stuff with countless credits. [00:50:58] Speaker B: Was. Was the other two guys, like, obviously, Charles Derning and Lane Smith? Obviously, I know very well. [00:51:06] Speaker A: Earl, who plays Philby. He was in a ton of stuff. He was in reanimator, or Bride of Reanimator. He was in used cars. He was. He was in a ton of stuff. And Robert F. Lyons was. Who plays Skeeter. He was like a New York act. Like, all these guys are like New York actors who went out to LA. They did all kinds of stuff. They worked. They work constantly. They were. They were working actors. It was interesting if you look up Robert F. Lyons. Lions. Lions. Anyways, if you look him up, it's like a very handsome, very handsome photo of him with, like, clean, clean cut hair and a mustache and, like, yeah, yeah, totally. [00:51:48] Speaker B: I didn't realize. [00:51:49] Speaker A: What do you think is going on with Skeeter's hat that's, like, such a distinctive hat. Like, I. [00:51:54] Speaker B: Like. [00:51:54] Speaker A: I don't know what that means. I wonder if there's, like, some sort of meaning, like, behind. I'm sure there is. Or at least he gave it to, like, you know, the actor giving, like, you know, I feel like there's something. [00:52:07] Speaker B: There, especially, like, later. Later in the film, whenever it's him and Otis, and he says that thing about how, like, you say so many things to me and confuse me. Like, it's like, the hat and that, like, give me this feeling that, like, he's, like, he's got his own childlike innocence, you know, maybe he's nothing fully developmentally disabled, let's say. But I feel like he's on the spectrum as well, that, like, he kind of joined the bully group so he wouldn't be bullied. [00:52:37] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Yeah. You pick on someone weaker than yourself, right. [00:52:42] Speaker B: Yeah. He doesn't want to be picked on, so he's going to join the group to pick on Bubba, that type of thing. And I feel like the hat's, like, representational that the way it's, like, always. He's always, like, kind of, like, moving it around like, a little kid is like, you know, like, oh, can't sit still kind of a thing. Yeah, that's kind of the feeling I got. [00:53:01] Speaker A: Um. Harliss death. [00:53:04] Speaker B: Yeah. No. Uh, it's. Well, like, real quick. I think it's interesting because, like, there's a couple of those moments of, like, it's Halloween, it's fall, but then, like, he's talking about, like, whenever his wife sees the scarecrow, like, it's like, well, of course there's no scarecrow out there I haven't planted yet. But it's like, he wouldn't probably really plant anything for the time of the year. You know what I mean? So it's kind of funny that that's kind of what they put in there. It doesn't really make sense, but it made sense. [00:53:33] Speaker A: Okay, I'm confused now. It made sense to me because it's like, I wouldn't be planting because we're harvesting. [00:53:39] Speaker B: Well, he said because he hadn't planted yet. And it's like, well, you wouldn't plant. Like, you wouldn't play until the following spring. [00:53:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought that's what he meant. [00:53:47] Speaker B: And, well, the field's empty. There's nothing there. So he's already like, it's gone. You know what I mean? Like, that's. [00:53:54] Speaker A: That's why it doesn't make sense that there would be a scarecrow out there. [00:53:57] Speaker B: Well, because he said he has. Well, like, he wouldn't be talking about planting yet. Like it's something soon to happen if it's the following spring. [00:54:04] Speaker A: I think we're getting caught up on it. Made sense to me because she's like, there's a scarecrow out there. And he's like, why would there be a scarecrow out there? There's. I haven't planted. There's nothing out there. Everything's been harvested yet. [00:54:16] Speaker B: Planted yet. [00:54:19] Speaker A: Meaning. Okay. Anyways. Okay. You grew up in the farmland. [00:54:26] Speaker B: Fancy pants New Yorker. Ain't got no idea how cropping work. [00:54:31] Speaker A: Have you ever. Did you ever. Did you know anyone, or did you ever hear of someone dying in a farming accident? [00:54:41] Speaker B: Not dying, but I've heard of people being injured. [00:54:44] Speaker A: People that you knew. [00:54:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:46] Speaker A: Community. [00:54:47] Speaker B: Not like my. Like, not growing up, but again, like my mom's side of the family. Like in southeast Missouri. Like, I've heard some stories about people getting, like, hurt by farming equipment, that type of thing, but not like anything terrible, but nothing like falling headfirst into your, uh, your. I'm not entirely sure what device that was. [00:55:07] Speaker A: I have no idea he's using. [00:55:09] Speaker B: I'm not smart enough on this stuff. I don't know. Grain muller. I don't know. [00:55:15] Speaker A: And it's like. It's like, you see his body's in the body. Baghdad. And it's like, you know, in my head, I just. I have a real Dale and tucker wood chipper, sort of like. And he just comes out his chunks, sort of thing, which I don't think is. I imagine he, like, I don't think. [00:55:34] Speaker B: Would have that fell. [00:55:35] Speaker A: Yeah, and, like, the machine just got, like, stuck or something. [00:55:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, it mushed up his melon. [00:55:42] Speaker A: Mushed up his melon real good. Harlis's melon got mushed up in the mulcher. [00:55:49] Speaker B: So that brings up a point, though. Like, here. Like, right? Like, how do you feel about him dying first as opposed to, let's say, skeeter and one of the other guys? [00:56:02] Speaker A: I think it's good that he dies first because he seems out of that group of guys, he seems the most capable. [00:56:11] Speaker B: And so, thus, like, yeah, taking him out first is the one that makes sense. [00:56:14] Speaker A: But, like, the Jesse ventura of the group, if you've seen predator, you'll reference. [00:56:21] Speaker B: Well, like. But that makes sense. Okay, like, I get what you're saying, but, like, what about them from a story perspective about him being the first to go? Do you like that? Or do. Would you prefer if, like, one of the other guys went first? [00:56:32] Speaker A: No, like, I think that's, it's like, this is, this is. He's, he seems to me, for some reason, Otis has some sort of power over Harlis, which seems, it seems like Harlas was like the quarterback in high school. Harlas, you know, it could just be like, lane Smith has this quality about him, you know what I mean? But, like, Harlis seems like the smartest and slickest of them. You know what I mean? And the fact that he's the first to go, I think, works for multiple reasons. One, you've lost, like, Otis has lost probably his. The smartest ally he has. And the one with the most influence and the one with, like, the strongest spine, maybe. But also, it's telling me, like, like, again, it's just like less things become serious very quickly for Otis. He has no one to really rely on. He's got a reign in skier and Philby this whole time. You know what I mean? They're both pretty spineless. [00:57:44] Speaker B: It's true. No, that's a good point. [00:57:47] Speaker A: So it works for me. Does it not work for you? [00:57:50] Speaker B: I think it works for me. I just think I like an alternate world in which one of the other guys goes first, especially. [00:57:57] Speaker A: And Harless wins at the end, and he becomes champion of the movie, and he marries merrily. [00:58:04] Speaker B: He's already got a wife who's, who's putting it on a little heavy when she scarecrow, too. You know what I mean? No, like, I feel like, you know, like, I think the classic, like, you know, story arc of, like, a group of people being killed in a horror film, it's like Harlis has that, like the, the next to last guy getting killed vibes. You know what I mean? That's exactly the reasons why you're saying, you know what I mean? But I mean, it's. [00:58:34] Speaker A: It's kind of also like, like Janet Lee getting killed at the top of psycho. [00:58:39] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:58:40] Speaker A: Not quite that level, obviously. [00:58:42] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:58:42] Speaker A: It. [00:58:47] Speaker B: Um. Pretty. Okay, so I don't know if this is the right time to get into this or not, but, like, you know, the deaths, they're, they're decently elaborate. You know what I mean? Like, like how, like, you know, it's like, lured in and then gets them where they want, you know, that type of thing. So this begs a question in my mind. Is ghost Bubba developmentally disabled? [00:59:13] Speaker A: Well, this brings up another question, which I want to get to this at the end, actually. [00:59:20] Speaker B: Okay, so maybe we should table this. Maybe. [00:59:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we'll table it. But I like. I like. Please bring that up at the end when we sort of. When I want to talk about, like, the conclusion of everything. What is. What does this all mean? [00:59:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:32] Speaker A: Um, but more importantly, after Harlis dies, could you imagine eating a breakfast like that every day at the boarding house? [00:59:40] Speaker B: I don't know what you're talking about. I do. Every day. You don't have your flapjacks and your. [00:59:45] Speaker A: Jams, your sunny side eggs and your biscuits and your bacon. [00:59:49] Speaker B: Yeah, well, but I mean, like, people do. Like, I. Again, going back to, like, uh, my mom's side of the family, like, my grandpa. Like, whenever we go visit them when I was a kid, they would eat big, elaborate, you know, breakfast is because then you would go work the field before it, and then after, it was hard ass work. So eat these giant meals. You're, like, carb loading and taking in as much caloric intake as you can. Yeah, because you're going to work it all out, you know, in the fields. So that kind of culture. [01:00:19] Speaker A: Um, do you think Otis finished his breakfast after hearing that Harlis died? [01:00:24] Speaker B: You know, that's a good. That's a good question. He doesn't seem to be much one for, like, he's a big guy, but he doesn't seem to be much one for eating. He seems to be more for drinking. Like, you know, like one of those fat guys that, like, just drinks all his calories. He kind of strikes me as that, you know? So, yes, he took his time. He ate it very quietly. That has the exact times. The ambulance came by at 651. [01:00:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:58] Speaker B: Wow. [01:00:59] Speaker A: What else has he got going on? You know what I mean? It's like that's. There's no. There's no Internet. There's no. There's like, a radio. You know what I mean? It's like local news is what's going on, you know? [01:01:12] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:01:13] Speaker A: I hate bad news. Like, there's nothing. I hate when I sit down to eat. When I finally. Because I'm a person who doesn't, I typically only usually eat one meal a day. Sometimes it's two. Anyways, so when I sit down for dinner, it's like a. Like, I am excited to eat and I'm like, hungry and like, I've made something that is healthy and nutritious and like, I'm very excited to eat. And there is nothing I hate more than someone giving me bad news or asking me questions or just like, I just want to. Just want to eat a. I just want to eat in peace. [01:01:47] Speaker B: You start yourself to the point of being hangry that then you do not want anyone to make eye contact with you or be in the same room while you pour yourself on 4000 calories. [01:02:03] Speaker A: I hear what you're saying. I will say that, like, I prefer to sit down with people and eat and have conversation to have fun conversation. I don't want heavy conversation. I don't want. This is the list of things we need to get done. I don't want to receive bad news. I don't want the news on. I want, like, I want it to be a positive experience, the eating. So it's like the best case scenarios. I'm with other people and we're conversing and having a nice time. You know what I mean? That's the best case scenario. Worst case, like the, you know, the unfortunate way I find most of my meals to go, which is, I think a truth for a lot of people is you're in front of a television eating, which I hate. [01:02:49] Speaker B: I actually. Yeah, we kind of stopped doing that. Yeah, I recommend. [01:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. That's great. Yeah. That you sit down together and eat. Yeah. It's like there's a reason why we grew up in a certain generation where it was like, we're going to sit down at the dinner table as a family or whatever, as a unit and eat together and talk. And there won't be the phone or the radio or the. You know what I mean? Whatever. Um, it's mindless eating anyways. Okay, okay. [01:03:17] Speaker B: No, big, big question here. Better to have a good meal or a great meal and a bad conversation or bad news or a subpar meal. Not good meal, but with good conversation, good company. [01:03:31] Speaker A: Oh, always, always company. Always good company and good conversation. Always nice. Always. [01:03:37] Speaker B: Next time you come to my house, you're gonna eat piss Ritz and have to talk to me. [01:03:40] Speaker A: Piss Ritz, what's that? [01:03:42] Speaker B: It's a whole bunch of writs and I piss on it. [01:03:48] Speaker A: I mean, those things are so buttery and delicious. It might work after all. I think they're banned in Europe. [01:03:56] Speaker B: Are they really? [01:03:57] Speaker A: Yeah. They got something in them that like, like the rest of the world is like, this is not safe to eat. A. [01:04:02] Speaker B: That's true of a lot of Americans. [01:04:04] Speaker A: I know a lot of. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever go to a church Halloween event? [01:04:14] Speaker B: No, I grew up going to church. Went to a Baptist church from when I was a very little kid until probably about, like, 16 or 17. Probably 16, I think. And I remember going to a lot of, like, church events as a kid. I don't remember them ever doing anything really for Halloween, like, even too, like, I think for our age, you know, we were kind of before the trunk or treat thing, so even I. We didn't have those. I remember growing up, so, no, I don't remember ever going to any, like, a Halloween thing like that. [01:04:46] Speaker A: Did you not church? No, no. I was. I grew up Catholic. Catholics don't celebrate Halloween, or the catholic church, well, doesn't celebrate Halloween. [01:04:59] Speaker B: Church really celebrates Halloween, but, like, they do, I think, like. But, like, well, I think at that. [01:05:07] Speaker A: At that point in America, Halloween wasn't like, there wasn't a satanic panic. It was like, oh, it's a fall festival, essentially. Right, right. Yeah, it's panic. But even when, like, I think that this film is probably set earlier than 81, I feel like it's. It has like a. Has a real, like, like, fifties or sixties vibe. I don't know. I'm not. I'm not good with time. Anyways. Anyways, I don't think this is set in 1981. It seems like, it kind of seems like the America that never really existed, that sort of thing. You know what I mean? The Andy Griffith sort of, like, this obviously is a darker story than the Andy Griffith town, but that type of small town. And it's like Halloween is, or the fall festival is a reason to get your very, very, very small community to come together and celebrate something so that people have, like, something to look forward, like, activities to look forward to, you know? [01:06:11] Speaker B: Like, I mean, but like, this kind of. I kind of disagree with that. Like, so these kind of places especially, like, I mean, 81, like that, like, like this, just, like, local communities that, like, you know, in rural. Rural areas, like, this is not an uncommon thing, even today to an extent. I mean, I know it's changed a lot, but this would definitely be like, this feels very like an 81 story to me. It has a bit of that old timey charm to it, but that's also just part of what those kind of communities are like. You know what I mean? So, yeah, again, so I visited my folks a couple weeks ago in Kansas City, and an uncle of mine was in town for a funeral from southeast Missouri. I haven't seen this guy in, like, 20 years, right? And so he's in town. So he. He comes and visits the house because, you know, seeing my mom and catch up a little bit and just seeing them in a room together, you know, again, rural southeast Missouri, you know, farming community. Just hearing them, like, in a room together today, it sounds like back whenever I was a kid visiting of, like, you know. Oh, you remember Bob Smith? Oh, yeah, Bob Smith. He used to own the 21 acres, then grow soybeans on it, blahdeminal blah. Like that. Like, it's like this, like, old timey, like, small community stuff of, like, knowing, like, stories based on, like, people, and then, like, descend down, like, oh, yeah, this person. And then this person. This person. And it's their tale of, like, then, like, either the sharecropping or the community or all that around it, like, so, like, to that point, right, of, like, no, this is like. I think this is a pretty good encapsulation of, I think, a rural community. And it never really says Texas, Arkansas, somewhere like that. In the late seventies, early eighties, you know. [01:08:07] Speaker A: Set. Not set, but definitely set in the south, but shot in a town. Forget the name of it. Anyways, it's town, like an hour and a half from LA. [01:08:21] Speaker B: Really. [01:08:22] Speaker A: Like a pod. Like. Like, a lot of films would go and shoot their, um, when they needed, like, rednecks. Oh, it was like a real. It was like a real small town. Like that. That's the post office. That's the gas station. That's the. That's the, uh, the church community center. Like those. Those are location places. Um, and apparently, like that, small towns, like, ah, you're. You're here. Uh, you need. You need to shoot here. Okay. That'll be a ton of money. [01:08:54] Speaker B: Good for them. [01:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:56] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:08:57] Speaker A: Right. I love the Halloween decorations at the party. Very much my vibe. Yeah, very much my vibe. Like, classic americana, rural farming community, Halloween decorations. Very charming. Bobbing for apples. [01:09:18] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [01:09:20] Speaker A: Mary Lee really digging into those apples. Yeah, I would say you could tell she. It was like, don't get your makeup all wet. You have to stay dry. So, like, kind of pretend. [01:09:31] Speaker B: I would say I feel like she's a better apple bobber than Mickey is. [01:09:36] Speaker A: Now, if you're a constant listener, you will know that I lost a bet with Mickey. Mickey thought he could bob a ton of apples. I didn't think he could, and he proved me wrong, and I paid up. But I will say this. I want a rematch. [01:09:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [01:09:54] Speaker A: I think. I think I allowed I allowed him to have goggles and I think that made it easier on him. He was like, I don't want to lose my contacts. And it's like, I think part of Bobby for apples is that you can't see what the fuck is going on. Like, you have water in your eyes. But anyways, he proved me wrong. He's Mickey's. Mickey is the type of guy who if you tell him he can't do something, 99% of the time he's going to prove you wrong just by sheer, sheer will speaker one. [01:10:26] Speaker B: I'm not going to tell Mickey that he's wrong. I'm just saying that Marily is the supreme apple bobber over Mickey. I mean, he doesn't stand a chance, I think head to head. But if he get. If we could get that time machine which I'm working on, it's not working very well right now. [01:10:43] Speaker A: Stocking your balls a lot? [01:10:45] Speaker B: I mean, they say that if you get in a cardboard box and you put live wires to your testicles, you can go back in time. And it hasn't been right ten times so far. But I feel like the 11th might be it. [01:10:58] Speaker A: I mean, you are literally going into the future, though, every time. [01:11:02] Speaker B: Whoa, bro. [01:11:04] Speaker A: And think about that. Halloween party's great. Otis is fucking creepy sneaking up on Mary Lee. [01:11:13] Speaker B: So that whole interaction, I mean, I think it kind of gets to that question, right. Of like the only reason why there's something in the film about him being like a pedophile is the line that misses Ritter has about, like, I see you for who you are. You leave that little girl alone. Right? Like that whole thing, like there's nothing else. But in that scene, he's got this desperation to him is his desperation driven by the situation, driven by those urges that he has towards merrily, you know what I mean? [01:11:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. Like, I don't think there is. [01:11:50] Speaker B: I just. [01:11:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's. I mean, even at the beginning, his hatred of Bubba is tied to his relationship with Mary Lee. [01:12:03] Speaker B: That's true. [01:12:04] Speaker A: You know what I mean? So it's like the thing that seems to bother him is that Bubba is spending this time with Mary Lee. [01:12:13] Speaker B: So it's like jealousy, envy, possibly. [01:12:17] Speaker A: If he. If he is. If he is indeed a pedophile, he's definitely an incel. [01:12:24] Speaker B: Uh, yeah, he's got. Well, he's got a lot going on. [01:12:27] Speaker A: He's a lot of negative, a lot of terrible, awful things going on with Otis. So the Halloween party happens and then we get a real lesson with Phil be about why cardiovascular health is important. [01:12:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah. How so Phil be, I love that. It's like he hears something, he sees something, and he's like, I'm getting the fuck out of here. It's like, it's like I'm not, you know, and I wonder, I wonder if, like, is this the first, the car won't start trope? [01:13:10] Speaker B: Oh, I don't know what I mean. [01:13:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it's got, it's early. It's, I think at this point, I think Halloween two and Friday the 13th two are coming out around this time. Um, so, like, you know, obviously tropes aren't tropes yet necessarily, but I'm just curious, like, if, if, like, this was like, the start of, of the car won't start trope anyways, the car doesn't start. And like, he, he makes a very good decision. Get in the car and leave. I don't care what's going on. [01:13:46] Speaker B: Which is great, right? Someone that dies and their death is not because of doing stupid decisions. You know, he makes all the right decisions. [01:13:54] Speaker A: Well, then he makes a bad decision based on, off of his inability. It's like, oh, he has a heart problem. We learn he has a heart problem. So, like, he can't just run off into the field. Right. Which is the writers doing a very good job of, like, okay, he's stuck in this location. So his best option is not a good option, which is he locks himself in a silo. [01:14:14] Speaker B: Well, that's true. That's pretty poor. [01:14:16] Speaker A: Which is not a good option. But it's like, I guess, out of, of, like, what he has available. [01:14:21] Speaker B: Yeah. The option wouldn't be to go back in time and eat a kale salads instead of fried pork chops was to just climb into the grain shed. [01:14:35] Speaker A: Which. [01:14:36] Speaker B: You can, you can make your argument that he was killed by the thing that cause, like, you know. Okay, so he probably got poor cardiovascular health by eating a heavy meat diet, which we feed cows and pigs, porn and grain. And then what kills them? Corn and grain and then the heart. [01:14:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:52] Speaker B: Circular man. [01:14:55] Speaker A: Circular bro. That's a beautiful image. Is like the single arm in the flashlight on the, it's like, it's like I'm going to stop it. Just inches away from salvation. You know what I mean? [01:15:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:10] Speaker A: He stopped the silo, the pouring of the corn. [01:15:14] Speaker B: But the bubba ghost is he doesn't just let it fly. He's like, oh, just enough. Boop. [01:15:20] Speaker A: The possible, possible bubba guy at this point, it could be Mary Lee. It could be the very old woman, misses litter. It could be misses ritter. We don't know yet. Okay, so then Otis goes and scares the shit of misses Ritter and kills her. [01:15:45] Speaker B: What a way to do that. I like how he keeps on like, like that. Like, there's a scene before then, of course, when he comes by her house and gets her to sign for the package. And then that scene, too, he's like, yeah, we have a deal. You killed one of mine, I killed yours. That's fair. That's a deal. Like, he's so desperate, it's over now. Like, it's so pathetic. Great. [01:16:07] Speaker A: And I love. I love how he, like, God, it's such brilliant acting by Charles Dunn dunning durning his realization that she's dead. And then he goes to flee, and then the tea kettle is going off and he decides to burn the place down. [01:16:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Leaves the. The gas running. [01:16:32] Speaker A: That's. Man, that's. That's. They lucked out with their cast, man. Oh, no. [01:16:38] Speaker B: If you didn't have someone as good as Charles durning in this role, like, yeah, it would have been greatly. The film would have been greatly hurt by it. Yeah, he. He makes it in a lot of ways. [01:16:50] Speaker A: All. All the nighttime stuff shot at nighttime. I love it. It's haunting and beautiful and, like, we. This happened earlier, but, like, when Mary Lee wakes up and is like, oh, and searching for bubba, that whole. It's like, it's such a dream. Like, the sound is the wind and everything. It's just like. And he's a lot like the motif of, like, the. Where he dies and the stake for the. For the scarecrow looking like a giant crosse. [01:17:26] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [01:17:26] Speaker A: Like, his grave is. Oh, God, it's so beautiful. It's really beautiful. It's like, it's. It's unpretentious blue collar filmmaking at its best. You know what I mean? You got characters, you got technicians. You got, like, people working for, like, a television company, like, making something as well as they can. [01:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. [01:17:48] Speaker A: So misses ritter's dead now. She's an old lady. These people don't do their. [01:17:55] Speaker B: They don't check maintenance. The lines dry out. Then you got exploded houses. This is the fifth exploded house in this community this year. That sheriff is so non plus. It's like, this is just the third death this week. Is another old person blowing up in a house. No big deal. What do you want now, da? Look for more clues about possible crimes going on in the community. Whatever. [01:18:22] Speaker A: If you think it's like, it probably that local sheriff is like, maybe has one other employee, like, didn't like, just like, I got voted into this. I nice guy. People like me. [01:18:40] Speaker B: I thought it was gonna be mostly not equipped to deal with. [01:18:44] Speaker A: I am not a quick murderous. [01:18:48] Speaker B: I guess that's true, right? I mean, because technically, he does call, like, a posse together. I mean, that part is. We don't have any reason to believe that that didn't really happen. [01:18:59] Speaker A: That the sheriff calling Otis at the beginning. Hey, guys, where are you? [01:19:09] Speaker B: We could talk about gas line maintenance. It's an important issue. [01:19:19] Speaker A: Um, it's a skeeter eater. Peter loses it, man. [01:19:25] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Yep. He was gonna go awol. He's got a flake. [01:19:31] Speaker A: And then I love when Otis hits him with the shovel and the hat sticks to the shots. So cool. [01:19:40] Speaker B: I know it's probably not long enough, but maybe next time you're doing, if you ever need to do an audition and you provide a monologue, you should do skeeter. When I was a kid, we visited my cousin in the country. [01:19:53] Speaker A: It's funny. He so, like, the first part of that scene, right? Where he's like, no, no. It's tearing me apart. It's very James Dean Rebel without a cause. And at the graveyard, it's very, very lenny. Of mice and men. Yeah. [01:20:09] Speaker B: And I love the fact, too, that, like, he goes from being so, like, you know, like, over the top, like, no. So then, like, you know, Charles durning does this whole, like, it's okay, it's okay. We're gonna do what you want. We just gotta put the. We gotta bury the body again? Kind of thing. And then he, like, guilts him into, like, do you want me to climb down and do it? My shoulders been really bothering me, you know? Yeah, no, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it. [01:20:37] Speaker A: I love it when Charles Journey is like. Is like trying to be nice and try. You know what I mean? It's like, very. He's very charmed that you see. You see the charm in full effect. Like, come on. Okay, we got to do, like, you believe that Skeeter is going to feel safe, that skeeter is like, okay, we. Okay, we're going to. We're going to do the things, we're going to do these. I got to do this. And then it'll all be overd. [01:21:01] Speaker B: It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine. I'm gonna talk about simple country living with my cousin. [01:21:08] Speaker A: Now we finally get some pumpkins in this movie, if there's. If there's two. Two issues I have with this movie, one is no foliage. [01:21:23] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. [01:21:24] Speaker A: Right. And then two is no pumpkins until the very end. Yeah, I could use some pumpkins and some gourds, but there's a minor detail. [01:21:33] Speaker B: You get. You get, like, corn stalks, like, dried out, you know, corn stalks, but, yeah, no foliage, no pumpkins. [01:21:40] Speaker A: Until, in fact, when I was watching this, I remember when you proposed this movie, I was like, I don't know if this is Halloween enough. And then I, like, I'm watching it in the first, like, 25, 30 minutes. I'm like, this is not Halloween enough. This. There isn't this and there isn't this, and there isn't this. And then I'm like, oh, wait a second. There's an actual Halloween party and, oh, there's. Okay, never mind. I want to shut up. [01:22:06] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I get it. [01:22:11] Speaker A: So we got the big thing, and it's chasing Otis, and then Otis dies, very poetically with the fork. [01:22:22] Speaker B: Real quick, how'd you feel about Otis's or Charles Durnings? Like, I guess either drunk driving or I'm overcome by the situation. Driving. [01:22:33] Speaker A: I didn't like. I was like, yeah, it's so, like. [01:22:35] Speaker B: It'S like, basically very hardcore. [01:22:38] Speaker A: Like, either side of the road, he's been drinking. He killed a guy. He's like, late at night. He dug a hole like Yuri. At least he filled the hole. Started digging that hole. Yeah, diggings hard. Anyone who's like, if you've never done a hole, that's not easy work. [01:23:01] Speaker B: No. Yeah. Graves take time, take a lot of energy. Take a lot out of you. Every, you know, every few weeks when I have to dig a grave, where's the guy out. I got to eat a meal of biscuits and pancakes and eggs. [01:23:15] Speaker A: It preserves, reserves. Something. Something I really like that. Something I find very cathartic with, like, traditional jewish cemeteries. Is that so? My partner is jewish. Her great grandfather passed, and we went to the funeral. And in a traditional. I don't know if it's orthodox or traditional jewish graveyard, you, the people, like, the mourners, fill the hole. [01:23:58] Speaker B: Oh, really? [01:23:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Everyone gets a shovel and you sort of like, you know, whoever's going to be doing it takes turns. And you sort of like, fill. Fill the hole. I found. I found it to be a. Granted, I did not know the man well. I met him a few times, and it was very sad to see someone, her stepfather. It was very sad to see someone I cared about. Her stepfather, lose his father. But I did, like, I was like, this is a good. Like, we should all be doing this. [01:24:31] Speaker B: I mean, I think we've kind of talked about that in the past a little bit. Like, how, like, you know, we're really, like, we are so separated by the act of death. You know what I mean? Like, it used to be to that point, right? Like, that's a cultural thing of actually participating in it, but, like, used to be in the days of this community, right? Like, if probably. If a family member died, the observation of it would probably happen in the home, that type of thing. You know what I mean? Like, but we're removed from the process. [01:24:58] Speaker A: Now, certain religions, you, like, clean the body. Like, the family cleans the body. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyways, back to otis. Back to. [01:25:10] Speaker B: Back to some real hard hitting stuff. [01:25:12] Speaker A: Otis is running into the pitchfork. [01:25:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Which. That's a cool killing. It's a. It comes. It comes quick is the only thing. You know what I mean? Like. Like, I kind of wish there was a little more to it, you know what I mean? [01:25:26] Speaker A: But more torture. You want more justice, more vengeance. [01:25:31] Speaker B: But, like, I love, though, the, like, you know, the backhoe is, like, you know, chasing after him, and it just comes to the stop the second he turns around and hits that. That's. That's really satisfying. It's good. [01:25:44] Speaker A: So. So what is. What is, like, final thoughts, I guess not final thoughts yet, but what do you think is. Is it the spirit? Mention what you mentioned before. [01:25:57] Speaker B: So the question. [01:25:58] Speaker A: And if it is spirit. [01:26:00] Speaker B: Okay, so, I mean, Bubba's developmentally disabled. He is dead. His ghost is enacting this revenge. We have the very sweet moment at the end between ghost spirit Bubba and merrily. My question is, these deaths are very calculated and very thought out and with mechanical functionality and all that. Is ghost Bubba developmentally disabled or not? [01:26:35] Speaker A: I imagine in death, he is released of, like, in anyone's death. You like to imagine if there is an afterlife, right, that you're released of, like, the pain and the disabilities and, like, the. Just the. The anchors that your mortar coil gives you. So he has. He is freed at last for his mind to develop and grow as it should have, you know? So I think if it is Bubba's ghost, that's why he's able to plan these things out of. Right. Also, though, Kevin McAllister, he planned some pretty interesting things as well, and he was about the same age as Bubba is supposed to be in his head. [01:27:31] Speaker B: That's a good point. That's a good point. So you kind of make it sound like maybe you have the auspicious thought that it's not bubba. Am I reading you correctly on that, or. [01:27:41] Speaker A: I don't know. Like, that's the thing is, it's like. I mean, obviously, the go to thing is it's bubba spirit, but it's like. It's like, is there some sort of ancient scarecrow spirit that is enacting justice for, like, for bubba? [01:28:03] Speaker B: Okay. [01:28:04] Speaker A: Like, I don't know. The. It's definitely, like, is it Sam? I don't think it's Sam. [01:28:09] Speaker B: No, the lawyer. Yeah. [01:28:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't think it's Sam. Uh, it's like, okay. You have, like, okay, so this is like a fable, right? [01:28:24] Speaker B: Sure. [01:28:25] Speaker A: I think it's like a fable, right. And you have the power of an innocent young child's love. [01:28:36] Speaker B: Sure. [01:28:38] Speaker A: For a simple person and the love of his mother and the grief and bereavement of his mother and the need for justice. I feel like it's more. I know this is the revenge society. What is this the. [01:28:57] Speaker B: You mean the harvest revenge squad? [01:29:00] Speaker A: Repeat yourself. I know. I know it's the harvest revenge squad, but I do feel like, for me, this is a movie less about revenge and more about poetic justice than it is about revenge. Although I wouldn't argue that. I wouldn't argue that it's inherently not revenge. That's obviously a part of what makes it. I'm just. From my point of view, it's. It's. It's just the combination of the grief and the love and the idiots. Uh, idiots. The. The innocence, like, combining together to create, like, the formula for the. The universe or the powers that be, whatever they may be, bringing justice. And is it through the spirit of Bubba? [01:29:58] Speaker B: So perhaps I feel like it has to be, no matter what, a form of bubba, because marily represent, like, she recognizes it as bubba. You know what I mean? [01:30:12] Speaker A: Yeah, she's. She's. Yeah, yeah. [01:30:13] Speaker B: Like, so it has to be, like, whatever it is that is representing Bubba, I guess. Like, could it be like, oh, God. [01:30:22] Speaker A: Could it. Could it be some sort of vengeful spirit or some sort of evil spirit that just wants to kill and it sees this thing happen, and it, like, convinces Mary Lee that it is bubba and takes on Bubba's, you know, uses Bubba as a means, as a vessel. As a vessel for murder? I don't think so. I'm being. [01:30:53] Speaker B: Right now because of the. [01:30:55] Speaker A: Bullshit, like, well, yeah, there's the connection of the flower. Yeah, absolutely. [01:31:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And, like, then, like. But then it's interesting, right? Because, like, the end. Also, like, when she says that thing about, like, next, I want to teach you a new game or something. Like, it almost feels like that's supposed to have a bit of, like, an ominous feel to it, which, like, that kind of gets to something. I was thinking, like, okay, like, so revenge has now happened on the people that distinctly murdered him, right? But in my opinion, there's still one more guy out there that revenge. Yeah. The fucking judge. Fuck that guy, man. [01:31:34] Speaker A: I don't know if I shot this. [01:31:36] Speaker B: Slow person to death 21, and he had a pitchfork, but what are we. Unless if someone can come out and provide direct evidence. Well, how about the 21 bullets in the guy's body? [01:31:48] Speaker A: That is the evidence, mandy, that seems excessive. [01:31:51] Speaker B: Yes. [01:31:53] Speaker A: That seems excessive. Yeah, you're right. You're right. [01:32:01] Speaker B: Judge has it coming. [01:32:03] Speaker A: Judge has it coming. [01:32:05] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [01:32:06] Speaker A: You're gonna play hide? Was it like. She doesn't say hide and seek, but it's something like a game. Like, tag is. I can't remember, she says, but she says it's like, Tagore. [01:32:17] Speaker B: Hmm. [01:32:19] Speaker A: Anyways, and then, like, I like the. It's very creepy, the freeze frame of it all. And, like, it does. You know, I wonder how much this is intentional, but the fact that it's not Larry Drake in that costume handing her that flower, that it is like an actor playing this. This stuntman or, like, I don't know much there. There isn't much about Robert J. Coster out there that I could find. I'm. You know, I. Like. My research was skim. [01:32:59] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. At that point, probably. [01:33:03] Speaker A: But I would be interested to see what he. His take on the performance of. Of the scarecrow is. You know what I mean? Because it does feel like a more mature, manly presence. Not manly, but like, whatever. You know what I mean? It just feels. It feels like a different energy than Larry Drake's energy of Bubba. It doesn't feel like childlike innocence. Larry Drake's. But it doesn't feel like the bubba from the beginning. Yeah, there's no childlike innocence. This is. This is. This is, you know, Bubba is now freed from whatever mental impairment he had, you know? [01:33:47] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's a good point. [01:33:49] Speaker A: But where. Where was he with his mom. [01:33:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:54] Speaker A: Why wasn't he there to protect her? [01:33:56] Speaker B: I don't know. [01:33:56] Speaker A: He doing. I guess he was killing. Uh, yeah. Yeah, you'll be maybe or something. He was busy. [01:34:05] Speaker B: That meant. [01:34:05] Speaker A: It's okay. That's not. It's not. I'm. I'm not. I'm not really nitpicking that. I'm just like, you know, I think. [01:34:13] Speaker B: I don't know about you too, but, like, one thing that I was kind of thinking about in this rewatch is, like, I kind of feel like Mary Lee grows up and is totally one of those, like, crazy women that, like, you know, probably opposed to, like, burning man and steals her boyfriend's suv. I mean, like, that's a real wild. [01:34:35] Speaker A: That was real specific. [01:34:38] Speaker B: I don't know anyone like that. No, you know what I mean? Like, she's got real, like, would, like, just tear a path of destruction when she gets to be an adult kind of energy. You know what I mean? [01:34:52] Speaker A: I've definitely met people with the energy of, like, when I was a child, my. I was friends. [01:34:58] Speaker B: I was friends with a man who. [01:35:00] Speaker A: Was a boy, and he came back to life and killed everybody. Like, I've known people like that. Yeah, I actually, you know, I've been around. [01:35:09] Speaker B: You've been around. There's also another thing that we haven't mentioned that, uh, do you think, uh, ghost Bubba got revenge on that dog for attacking Marilyn? [01:35:19] Speaker A: I don't think so. Simple creature, he killed simple creature. Protecting the rights of gnomes. He's. [01:35:27] Speaker B: He's carrying around the dead dog with. Having a scarecrow just walking through a feet. There's a drunk guy who's like, oh. Wipes his eyes, throws a bottle away. [01:35:38] Speaker A: The sheriff. [01:35:41] Speaker B: I'm going to ignore that. [01:35:42] Speaker A: So desperate to hang out with somebody, I'm not equipped to deal with this. [01:35:49] Speaker B: Hey, where are you guys going? You want to hang out? Hang out? [01:35:56] Speaker A: I killed the dog once. Um, so, uh, hold on. I got one more quote for you, okay? Otis's quote. No one's afraid of the mail man. [01:36:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And he says that in a way that is so creepy. [01:36:17] Speaker A: Yep. So, okay, you can watch this on VHS. I usually do this at the top, but key video released this in the mid eight, mid eighties. And then, of course, VCI Entertainment is responsible for its restoration. They released a dvd in the Blu ray. Now, you can get this as a double feature. You can get this as a double feature or the Blu ray because they made a sequel in 2022. The writer, um, I don't have the name in front of me now. Damn it. But the writer worked on it. People are excited about it. You should watch the trailer. [01:37:03] Speaker B: The original writer wrote. [01:37:05] Speaker A: The original writer I never watched is. [01:37:10] Speaker B: Okay, it looks. [01:37:12] Speaker A: You watch the trailer, it looks. I mean, it's. It's the difference between, you know, professional crew in California with professional character actors and people who would go on to have amazing careers versus like, just very, very amateur digital. Like, just look, looks like looks. I can forgive a bad story if it looks great. At least you got that visual element, or vice versa. You can forgive something that kind of looks shitty if it's got a great story and it's acted well, but, oh, boy. It's, it's like, I hate to say negative things, but, yeah, it's, it's not. Check out the trailer. Check out the trailer. For sure. Yeah, but don't buy, I would recommend not buying the, the double feature disc that's out there. Just get the blu ray. It's great. It's got commentaries and it's like all kinds of cool special features. [01:38:12] Speaker B: Really. [01:38:12] Speaker A: Definitely worth, worth owning. [01:38:14] Speaker B: Definitely like a physical release in modern, modern blu ray. That's interesting. [01:38:20] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks. Thanks to VCI. Yeah, nice. The eye entertainment, I've never heard of them. Actually. [01:38:27] Speaker B: I'm not familiar. I was gonna say. [01:38:29] Speaker A: You say my entry, my entryway to VCI entertainment is like, I have figured. I was like, oh, arrow or, yeah, video or what's vinegar syndrome? Or something must have released this and it's like, no VCI entertainment worth looking into. [01:38:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:38:48] Speaker A: I knew about them. Of course you didn't, because you're new to the video store. [01:38:51] Speaker B: Of course you've been buying from them for years. But, yeah, simple, simple. [01:38:56] Speaker A: Of course, simple. Chris, bubba, Chris, you should go as bubba. [01:39:05] Speaker B: No, that's not really. [01:39:06] Speaker A: You'd have to shave. You'd have to shave off your beard, though. No, it's cool, dude. No, just be bubble dead. [01:39:15] Speaker B: Oh. Oh, yeah. Cuz we think. Yeah, we think he's like back up and running. [01:39:20] Speaker A: He's back. Back up and running. So. Yeah, back up and running. Even though he was never running. Chris. [01:39:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:39:33] Speaker A: This is a crucial part of the podcast right now. [01:39:36] Speaker B: All right. Full focus. [01:39:38] Speaker A: And it's a crucial part of working at the video store. [01:39:41] Speaker B: Yes. [01:39:42] Speaker A: Okay. Who do you recommend this to? Who comes into the video store that you go, hey, I know you need to walk straight to the, um, this section. [01:39:55] Speaker B: Harvest revenge squad, reap what you sow. [01:40:00] Speaker A: I want to. Can I, can I make a suggestion? [01:40:03] Speaker B: Depends if I like it or not. [01:40:06] Speaker A: Just replace squad with society. I like that. [01:40:11] Speaker B: Okay, I was going to do that, but I didn't want to. [01:40:13] Speaker A: Harvest revenge society. [01:40:15] Speaker B: Harvest revenge society, reap what you sow. [01:40:20] Speaker A: That's my suggestion. I think that's we tweak it with that. [01:40:23] Speaker B: I like it. I like it. I thought I was a little too close to the Venture brothers. That's the reason why I didn't do revenge society. [01:40:31] Speaker A: Okay, well, I like that it's close. [01:40:33] Speaker B: That. [01:40:33] Speaker A: And I like that it's also like midnight society. [01:40:36] Speaker B: Yes. [01:40:41] Speaker A: The Nickelodeon show. [01:40:45] Speaker B: Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. [01:40:47] Speaker A: Is that midnight society? The Midnight Society. The Nickelodeon show. The anthology Nickelodeon show. That was what? Can't I think of the name right now? This is insane. [01:40:58] Speaker B: I don't know. You were more Nickelodeon guy than me. I'm sorry. I'm going to say Pete and Pete. I'm going to say you salute your shorts. I'm going to say eerie, Indiana. Say things I know. Aren't it? Parker Lewis? Can't lose. Say, head of the class. [01:41:20] Speaker A: Keep going. [01:41:20] Speaker B: Perfect strangers. Yep, that's it. [01:41:25] Speaker A: Are you afraid of the dark? [01:41:27] Speaker B: Are you afraid of the dark? [01:41:29] Speaker A: Yeah, the midnight society is a group of kids who tell stories. [01:41:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I got you. Sorry. [01:41:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a thing. There's a big fucking thing. [01:41:37] Speaker B: Okay. I didn't know it. I wasn't so cool as you watching Nickelodeon. [01:41:42] Speaker A: So the Harvest revenge society. [01:41:46] Speaker B: Society. So who. [01:41:49] Speaker A: Who you recommend in this to? [01:41:51] Speaker B: Oh, okay. So are you a. A postman who comes into the video store to deliver mail? I'm going to say you should watch this movie. This is a cautionary tale. You got to look out. [01:42:04] Speaker A: I don't know if Carol would enjoy watching this movie. Carol's. Carol's a no nonsense person. [01:42:12] Speaker B: I mean, I'm just telling you, like, she might want to take this in, you know? I mean, I know she's 72, but. [01:42:18] Speaker A: You know, I think that rents flubber, like, constantly. I don't think she'll like this. [01:42:24] Speaker B: It's troubling how often she rents flubber. There's something going on. [01:42:28] Speaker A: I know there's something going on. Well, maybe we'll have Carolyn one night. [01:42:33] Speaker B: To talk about her flubber addiction. [01:42:35] Speaker A: Yeah, but she's not hurting anybody. [01:42:38] Speaker B: That's true. Yes. No judgment. No judgment. No. No kink. Shame. [01:42:43] Speaker A: I would say it's a kink. That's a little. [01:42:49] Speaker B: I mean, I feel like this is. We've kind of talked about it a lot in the before, but I feel like this is kind of a good segue to horror film. Obviously made for tv to a lot of the points you're making earlier. It's a little slow, I'll grant you, but, I mean, it's got a nice story to it. It's well acted. It's. It's, you know, let's say adolescents. Let's say, maybe even adults that are maybe, like, you know, never really been into horror films, getting into it. And then, of course, this ties into what we're talking about right now. This has the Halloween vibes. I know it doesn't have a lot of kind of stuff we were talking about earlier, like the foliage and that type of thing. [01:43:27] Speaker A: It gets there, though. It gets there. [01:43:28] Speaker B: It gets there in a way, too, that, like, you know, like, we both live in places that we get a lot of those, like, fall feels and stuff like that. It gets there without that crutch, which really speaks to, I think, a lot of the strength of the film, that it gets there without needing, like, you know, beautiful trees of red color leaves and pumpkins everywhere and that type of thing. So, Michelangelo, who would you recommend this film to? [01:43:55] Speaker A: Yeah, first of all, I think this is a great, for me, this is a great warm up to Halloween film. [01:44:02] Speaker B: Sure. [01:44:03] Speaker A: Like, I think you watch it as early as September. Now, if you like in cold blood to kill a mockingbird. [01:44:18] Speaker B: Gregory Peck. Gregory Peck. [01:44:21] Speaker A: The Halloween tree. Something wicked this way comes. Are you noticing a theme here? [01:44:28] Speaker B: What? These are all films you like? [01:44:30] Speaker A: Not just films I like, but they're also books. [01:44:33] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Sure, sure. Yeah. [01:44:36] Speaker A: I think this is a slow and suspenseful television film from 1981. Right, I know. No, but hold on. If you find it impossible to read a book, this movie might not be for you. [01:44:52] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [01:44:53] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [01:44:54] Speaker B: Uh huh. [01:44:56] Speaker A: Also, if you like the fog, I think this is. I think the fog is also kind of in this vein where it's like you have a revenge story. It's very slow, it's very atmospheric. It's very. It's very much. It's the. The setting, the locations are just as much a part of the story as this, as, like, what's happening in the story. Sure. Now, on the other hand, I think this is a great background movie. You can definitely play this at a party or at a bar on the background when trick or treaters are coming by, because I think it's. It's safe. Right. Like, I see people sometimes they have the screens up outside their house, and they're playing, like, halloween movies without the audio. And it's like, I think this works. I think you might want to play a little bit later in the night just because of its themes, but, like, the kid's not going to see anything that's like. [01:45:52] Speaker B: No. [01:45:53] Speaker A: Although the scare, I got to say, the scarecrow itself, we haven't really talked about, but it's. It's effective and terrifying look. And the artwork is phenomenal. That is the poster and the box art for this is, like, super effective. So good. Um, also, do you need to fall asleep? Because some people like to have movies on in the background when they fall asleep. In fact, there is a website. I forget the name of the website, but there's a website where it's, like, it's movies, but just the audio tracks of movies and a black screen. So, like, you can listen to your. These movies as you fall asleep. I think this is a perfect, I talked about it earlier with the soundscape. This is a movie I could easily, like, I'll put on and sometimes fall asleep, too, because it's comforting. It's like the wind and everything, and it's just, I find it all, I find horror movies comforting also, if, for some reason, if you like the 2019 movie Candy Corn, are you familiar with this? [01:47:05] Speaker B: Did we try watching that one time? [01:47:08] Speaker A: Uh, maybe. I tried watching it. I've watched most of it. It's. I like, I think it's a great concept. I think it's got good bones. Uh, but, like, unfortunately, just, like, low budget films nowadays just don't have the patina of, like, something shot. An actual film does. But the concept of that is very similar to this. It's Halloween weekend. A group of bullies are planning their annual hazing, and they kill the guy, and the thing, he comes back. [01:47:41] Speaker B: Oh, no, I haven't seen it. [01:47:43] Speaker A: You got some carnival stuff in there. So it's very, you got the Ray Bradbury, by the way, did you? Did you, at the top, I said, ray Bradbury did some edits on this. So when the writer was writing this, he knew Ray Bradbury, and he, Ray Bradbury read nine drafts of the script and gave notes on it each time right until the 9th draft, where it was, like, done. So it's like, I think you definitely have those influences in this film of, like, a great Ray Bradbury. Like, Ray Bradbury, you'll see, like, theme, and any writer, you see themes come up Bradbury. Carnivals come up a lot. Halloween comes up a lot. Growing up. Mortality comes up a lot. I think this fits in. Like, if you like the Halloween tree, I think you'll like, like this. [01:48:40] Speaker B: I mean, I kind of know we poked out a couple things in it, but really, it's a very tight story. I mean. Oh, yeah, it's very neat. Yeah. [01:48:48] Speaker A: And it's made for tv, so it's quick. I think it's like, what's the runtime? Like an hour 24, like, I think. [01:48:53] Speaker B: It hits the 90 mark, but it's like, maybe like, just past or just under it. Yeah. Like 88, 89, 93, something like that. So not long. [01:49:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And it moves. And, like, again, some people. I don't think this is a movie for it, for everyone. I think you really do need a certain amount of patience. Again, if. If you are a person who is obsessed with tick tock and has a very short attention span, this movie probably won't do it for you. But if you're a person who loves to sit down under a tree in the beautiful autumn weather and to read a book and to look at the leaves and have a nice long meal in a conversation, and you like Halloween, perhaps this movie is for you. [01:49:39] Speaker B: Also, you could do a double feature of this and dead man shoes for your revenge of development. [01:49:49] Speaker A: Talk about, like, oh, man. Like, that fucking takes dead man shoes is great, but, like, oh, boy. That is not a family friendly film at all. But I will say, not very gory. [01:50:02] Speaker B: No, that's true. The murders, the deaths and that are not very gore either. Yeah. [01:50:07] Speaker A: Anyway, so, listener, thank you for joining us this Halloween season. Thank you, Chris, for picking out this wonderful film. We are follow up. What's our follow up gonna be as we continue our journey in the revenge. [01:50:29] Speaker B: Harvest harvest revenge society. Reap what you. [01:50:33] Speaker A: So what's. What's our next film? [01:50:36] Speaker B: We're going to pumpkin Head. [01:50:38] Speaker A: Oh, pumpkin head. Famous special effects wizard Stan Winston takes a stab at directing. I'm starring Lance Hendricks. I don't even have any of this written down. This is all just in my mind. [01:50:57] Speaker B: I was gonna say. I know, I know. Lance Hendricks. I didn't know. I didn't know the first part. [01:51:02] Speaker A: And some kid. [01:51:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. Yeah. I don't know anyone else in it but Lance. [01:51:06] Speaker A: Kid with glasses. Some little kid with glasses, and some teens on motorcycles. Cycles. Join us. Mickey, if you can hear this, I love you. I miss you. Thank you for editing this, Chris. Thanks for, you know, filling in for Mickey and doing, like, as good a job as someone who could do, who thinks pissing on Ritz Crackers is a good idea. Appreciate it. I love you. And to the listener, happy Halloween. It's the most beautiful, wonderful, Smokey, smelly. No, no, no. Okay, Mickey, cut that out. Don't. I hate that. I hate that you did that. Cut that out. Cut that out. Cut it out, cut it out. Okay. [01:52:08] Speaker B: Walking home from Halloween, giving me this Halloween year.