Cujo (1983)

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the return slot of horror, a podcast set in the basement of a video store much like the one from your youth. A place where Mickey, Marika, and Michelangelo hang out after hours, talk about horror films, and can't seem to agree on much other than their love for the genre. So grab a drink, be careful on the stairs, and don't be the last one left in the basement at the end of the night. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Welcome, listener, to the return slot of horror. A little bit of growl there. [00:00:55] Speaker C: Yeah, put a little on the end of it. [00:00:58] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:01:00] Speaker B: We are a podcast recorded in the basement of the video store we co own and operate after hours. When the doors are locked, the vhs are rewound, and the moon is glowing pale blue. On a brisk and breezy night, we like to hang out in the basement, crack open a drink, and discuss our beloved genre, horror. Horror as horror. Good boy. Good boy. Horror. Horror has intrigued, disturbed, delighted, aroused, and confused us. We are totally, helplessly in love with it. Every episode, we invite you to join us for a drink in the basement as we discuss a film selected from one of our painstakingly curated subsections of the video store. That's right, for the uninitiated, or anyone unlucky enough to have grown up without a mom and pop video store. [00:01:57] Speaker D: Mickey, can you explain these subsections? Yes. [00:02:01] Speaker C: Before there was streaming, before there's blockbuster, you had those independently owned video stores. Now what made them great was that the sections could be personalized and curated by those staff. Sometimes. I'm sure there are some that would do it by their customers. [00:02:17] Speaker D: So we at the return slot of. [00:02:19] Speaker C: Horror want to keep that spirit alive and strong. So we hope you enjoy perusing our sections, listening to the podcast as we talk about the films within those sections, why they belong in those sections, and hopefully joining us in those conversations on Instagram. [00:02:33] Speaker B: So this week we find ourselves in the mumster squad section of the video story. That's right. [00:02:41] Speaker D: Mom. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Or mum? [00:02:45] Speaker D: Momster. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Momster. Like mother. [00:02:50] Speaker C: Yes, like your mom. It's your Momster squad. [00:02:54] Speaker B: That sounded like you just did. Like that was a punchline to a joke. [00:02:58] Speaker C: The momster squad. [00:02:59] Speaker B: Yeah, the mom's. The squad. Mom. The Mumster squad. Was that like a beatles? No, that's the guy from Sons of Anarchy, the british guy who plays an american on that show, Charlie something. He would always say, mum. [00:03:20] Speaker D: Mum. [00:03:21] Speaker C: Mum. Anyway, accent. [00:03:23] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:03:24] Speaker B: Okay, Mickey, are we film critics? [00:03:27] Speaker D: No. [00:03:28] Speaker B: Are we film historians? [00:03:30] Speaker C: No. [00:03:34] Speaker B: Amateur film historians. [00:03:35] Speaker D: There you go. [00:03:38] Speaker B: We're just humble video store clerks shining a light on our love, thoughts, experiences, and feelings related to the films that. [00:03:45] Speaker D: We'Re talking about and how affected our lives. Please don't be offended if one of. [00:03:50] Speaker B: Us has questions or perhaps even a critical thought or two on the film we're discussing. It's all coming from a place of love. So before we jump into tonight's movie. [00:04:03] Speaker D: Mickey, what are you having to, you. [00:04:08] Speaker C: Know, it's warm out, so I'm doing a spicy mango margarita faux paw. They're canned. I didn't have time to make up my own little margarita. But delicious sparkling water with all natural flavors. And tequila is the alcohol. So spicy mango margarita faux pa so. [00:04:28] Speaker B: I got to share this. [00:04:29] Speaker D: Mickey. I was texting with Mickey and I'm. [00:04:35] Speaker B: Like, it's like too warm for me. It's springtime and it's already in the. I'm like, fucking bullshit. Global gross. And Mickey's just like, man, it's warm outside. I love it. I'm going to be bike riding and drinking margaritas. [00:04:48] Speaker D: And I'm like, fuck, I need to. [00:04:51] Speaker B: Be more like Mickey. [00:04:55] Speaker D: So I'm having. What are you having? [00:05:00] Speaker B: I couldn't find an Olympia beer. [00:05:06] Speaker D: Right. [00:05:08] Speaker B: Predominantly placed advertised in this film. We'll get more into that. So I went with the next best thing. And that's a yingling, America's oldest brewery. [00:05:23] Speaker D: So just brewery. [00:05:28] Speaker B: It was been a warm day, but it's starting to cool off. We're in the basement where it's already a little chilly. Have a nice cold. Just like regular lager. [00:05:39] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:05:41] Speaker C: Tonight, both refreshing drinks on a hot day. [00:05:45] Speaker B: Just two dudes talking about momster squad movies. [00:05:50] Speaker C: Momster squad. [00:05:52] Speaker B: So tonight we're talking about 1980 three's Kujo, based on Stephen King's 1981 novel of the same name, directed by Lewis Teague. Beautifully shot by the always stellar Jean Debont and adapted by a first draft by Barbara Turner. And then I believe Don Carlos Dunaway, maybe some other people were involved in streamlining Barbara Turner's beautifully written but very thick first draft adaptation. [00:06:27] Speaker C: I had on read that Stephen King did do a. [00:06:31] Speaker B: He also did a pass. [00:06:33] Speaker C: Yeah, he did a pass as well. [00:06:35] Speaker B: And this is in the early days of Steven. This is like when it's starting to rev up, where we're getting them. Like they're pumping them out as much as they can. And Lewis Teague directs Cat's eye. A couple of years later, the film stars everyone's favorite mom from the Wallace. Also Daniel. Yeah, Daniel. Hugh Kelly, an amazing seven year old Danny Pinatero and about ten dogs. Plus stuntman Gary Morgan playing the titular character, cujo. [00:07:13] Speaker D: Mickey, you were so passionate about this. [00:07:17] Speaker B: Movie that you were like, this is in the werewolf werewolf section, right? And I was like, if you really want it there, I got to know, can you sort of explain the section and your passion behind this movie? [00:07:40] Speaker C: Sure. So this has been months in the works for me. You don't realize this, but if you go back to our text chain and our conversations about the King Tyrion collection, every time I would volunteer up a movie or two that I thought would be great for the King Tyrion collection, I always slid Kujo in there because I was hoping somebody would bite. [00:07:59] Speaker D: No pun intended. [00:08:01] Speaker C: But nobody did. [00:08:02] Speaker B: We did not do it for the King Tyrion collection. [00:08:05] Speaker C: Then you were mentioning movies for our werewolf therewolf. And of course, howling is on there. And I couldn't think of the howling without immediately going right back to where. [00:08:14] Speaker D: My mind had been, just been marinating. [00:08:20] Speaker C: In the thought of Kujo. [00:08:21] Speaker D: And I was like, well, D. Wallace. [00:08:23] Speaker C: I was know the producers are the same for Kujo. I was like, so I got to get Kujo in there. I got to get Kujo in there. And it did not make the cut for there. So I thought, well, we got Mother's. [00:08:35] Speaker D: Day coming up, and there's nothing better than honoring some great horror leading lady moms. [00:08:43] Speaker C: Than to do that around Mother's Day and to especially do that around. [00:08:48] Speaker D: Me performance for me of d. Wallace's. [00:08:53] Speaker C: And Kujo is above and beyond many horror leading lady performances. And I just love her, and I love this movie. And I got a lot to say. Do you want me to just jump. [00:09:06] Speaker D: Into my love of this movie? [00:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd love to know your history and then your history leading into your overview of your experience watching it this time. [00:09:23] Speaker D: Okay, so to begin with, we've established. [00:09:27] Speaker C: That my parents were fans of Stephen King. We also established that my parents, although. [00:09:32] Speaker D: From very strict Baptist upbringings, religious, growing. [00:09:37] Speaker C: Up in the Bible belt, for some. [00:09:40] Speaker D: Reason, Stephen King had a pass for me as a kid, and they let me watch. Lucky you. [00:09:46] Speaker B: So lucky to have access to Stephen King with the sort know southern religious background that you. [00:09:57] Speaker C: So this is when I watched very young, do not know the time I watched it, but I know the emotion. [00:10:02] Speaker D: I felt after watching it. [00:10:03] Speaker C: I'd probably, up to that point, never sat through a movie and actually felt. [00:10:07] Speaker D: Exhausted by the end of it, but. [00:10:09] Speaker C: Not exhausted in a way where it was like it was a challenge to watch it, but more of just like, I feel like I've been really on a ride here. [00:10:15] Speaker D: I feel really? [00:10:16] Speaker C: Just like I'm just wore you. [00:10:21] Speaker B: Did you viscerally connect with Danny, with Tad? [00:10:25] Speaker D: Oh, well, sure. [00:10:26] Speaker C: Of like. And not even just in the moments when he's going through his most overwhelmed or when he's struggling with breathing. [00:10:36] Speaker D: Not even that stuff, but just like. [00:10:38] Speaker C: Being alone in a car, not knowing what doing and waking up in your mom's with your mom laying next to you, like huddled up next to you. [00:10:45] Speaker D: Just scared and frightened. [00:10:47] Speaker C: When he's like, I want my dad. I want my dad. [00:10:50] Speaker D: These things just work on a young person. [00:10:55] Speaker C: It was very visceral for me. [00:10:57] Speaker D: And this was e t's mom a. [00:11:00] Speaker C: Few years later, critter's mom. It's like, this is mom. This is like 80s movie mom. [00:11:06] Speaker D: And I just loved it as a kid, then watched. [00:11:11] Speaker C: It's one of those that I always watch when it's, when it's on one. [00:11:13] Speaker D: Of the Turner classic movies or whatever. [00:11:15] Speaker C: Then later forward ahead. I've watched this now five or six times, whatever. Molly and I were talking about shooting. [00:11:25] Speaker D: A film when we were early married, and I said we should watch Kujo. [00:11:31] Speaker C: Because it takes place essentially in a car. [00:11:33] Speaker D: And it's really the performance that drives the terror. The dog is scary, but really it's. [00:11:41] Speaker C: The reaction, you might say, that is the most terrifying. [00:11:46] Speaker D: So we watched it then, and Molly. [00:11:47] Speaker C: Was like, molly was as a mom. Even when we were watching it earlier. [00:11:53] Speaker D: She was moved by know. She feels it viscerally. What D. Walsh is going through. Then years later, our son has asthma. [00:12:06] Speaker C: Attacks to the point where we would have to rush him to the ER. And it was very scary for. And when he'd have really bad ear infections, we were scared of it going back into an asthma attack. [00:12:20] Speaker D: So we would have to go take him to get shots in his legs. And he was. How old was he at the time for the shots? [00:12:27] Speaker C: He was probably either a little bit younger than Danny or maybe right at. [00:12:30] Speaker D: Danny's age, I mean, right around there. [00:12:33] Speaker C: But the needle around seven. So we would have to wrestle him to the ground while the nurses gave him shots in his. [00:12:42] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:12:43] Speaker C: And one day he was home from school with bad asthma attack. And we were sitting there. I was like, let's put on a movie. And he's fascinated with scary stuff, too. [00:12:53] Speaker D: So I was like, oh, Kujo, you. [00:12:55] Speaker C: Will really like this. [00:12:56] Speaker D: It's good. [00:12:57] Speaker C: I had not really thought fully through when I told him to watch it as he's sitting home with an asthma. [00:13:01] Speaker D: Attack, but he was. [00:13:07] Speaker B: So it was a positive experience for him. [00:13:10] Speaker C: I don't know that's positive. [00:13:11] Speaker D: But he was glued. [00:13:13] Speaker C: He was thoroughly into it as far as just like, I can't take my. [00:13:16] Speaker D: Eyes off of this connected with it. [00:13:20] Speaker C: Because it's a kid going through something that doesn't understand, and he's just reaching out for his mom. He's asking for anybody to help. He needs help. The mom needs help. There's something very interesting about when you watch a mother struggle through these things with the son. Any parent struggle through something with the Son, because especially watching your son watch it, because you're trying to be so. [00:13:37] Speaker D: Brave that you hope they don't notice. [00:13:39] Speaker C: But when your son is watching a movie, watching her go through the same things as the kid goes through it, there is a connection that is made where he's like, wow, this is really hard for everybody. This is not just, he still talks about me having him watch that while he was like, oh, man, am I hope I don't have an asthma package, but didn't scare him away from dogs at all. [00:14:03] Speaker D: But he was really into it. So I just really love it. [00:14:07] Speaker C: And on this watch, I challenged myself because I said, I know the obvious reasons. [00:14:14] Speaker D: I like it. Right? [00:14:14] Speaker C: Seeing as a kid connecting with the kid, seeing D. Wallace as a parent, connecting with her as a parent. Her performance to me is, I really think, a wonderful performance. But I said to myself, what is it? Because this film does more than just that. It's not just D. Wallace and their performance. I really love this film, and I know that it was panned by a lot of people. When it came out, Cisco and Ebert thought it was trash. [00:14:36] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:14:36] Speaker C: So I forced myself to sit down. [00:14:38] Speaker D: And write out my thoughts, and I'm going to read to you kind of. [00:14:43] Speaker C: My thesis of Kujo, 1983. [00:14:45] Speaker D: Yeah, please do and understand, this is my personal opinion. Okay. [00:14:50] Speaker B: Yes. Obviously to the listener spoilers, but also, everything's just like we explained at the beginning. This is filtered through us, right? So this does not make it absolute. Our opinions are not absolute. They're just our opinions through the filter of admiration. Usually, yes, but, yeah, let's hear it. [00:15:17] Speaker D: Okay. I believe that if this film were. [00:15:20] Speaker C: The original source material of this story, this film would be heralded as a groundbreaking indie masterpiece on the level of Texas Chainsaw massacre. [00:15:32] Speaker D: Here's why I think the movie is brilliant. [00:15:34] Speaker C: It says, hey, our protagonist is going. [00:15:36] Speaker D: To be a mom that's at the end of an affair with the couple's best friend in the early 80s without. [00:15:43] Speaker C: Giving her any exposition dump for her reasoning. [00:15:45] Speaker D: Was she repressed? Was she bored. [00:15:48] Speaker C: Was she actually in love? [00:15:49] Speaker D: Who knows? And then in the movie, just as. [00:15:52] Speaker C: In real life, a series of circumstances leaves this woman in a fight or flight nightmare, making the domesticity of modern marriage and civility of the atomic family feel like a pleasantry that seems foreign in a world of brutality and primal. [00:16:08] Speaker D: War between a man and a beast. And on top of all of this, we want you to keep us on. [00:16:13] Speaker C: The edge of our seat as half the movie takes place in a car. [00:16:16] Speaker D: On a hot day. And, oh, yeah, make the antagonist man's. [00:16:21] Speaker C: Best friend a giant teddy bear, St. [00:16:23] Speaker D: Bernard, beloved by his middle school owner. [00:16:26] Speaker C: Do that with the film, keep an. [00:16:27] Speaker D: Audience engaged and make it good. [00:16:31] Speaker C: And I don't see how anybody could. [00:16:32] Speaker D: Pull that off, but he does in. [00:16:36] Speaker C: A really good way, in a visceral way. [00:16:37] Speaker D: Like, once you're in the car with. [00:16:39] Speaker C: Them, you're in the car with them, and it is a ride. So I think that there is something. [00:16:43] Speaker D: Really brilliant in this movie. [00:16:46] Speaker C: A lot of people sometimes say that. [00:16:47] Speaker D: She'S a woman in. [00:16:51] Speaker C: I can't remember what the actual phrase is, but when you put a woman in distress, I think that's it. [00:16:58] Speaker D: That's it. [00:16:59] Speaker B: I think that's usually what's said. Yeah, woman in distress. [00:17:02] Speaker D: But it's more than that. [00:17:05] Speaker C: It's like she starts off as, like. [00:17:07] Speaker D: A soft character that you neither. [00:17:11] Speaker C: For me, this is all me. For me, I neither love nor hate. [00:17:14] Speaker D: But I am kind of frustrated with because her husband seems to be a pretty good guy, a pretty good provider. [00:17:23] Speaker C: And she's doing this. There's just something about her that feels. [00:17:29] Speaker D: Like a real person, a real mom has. [00:17:33] Speaker C: Like, I think there's something about we take moms and we take away their sexuality a lot, but we make her kind of sexy in a way. And. [00:17:44] Speaker D: Like, her not or what her circumstances are, she ends up being just a fully rounded character for me, and she is a hero at the end. And I think she is incredible. I just think she's incredible. [00:18:03] Speaker B: I would argue one thing in what you're saying, and that is taking away the sexuality of our moms. I think browsers and the rest of Internet porn would disagree with you. Beautifully put. [00:18:15] Speaker C: I guess when I think of, like, I heard Dee Wallace one time in an interview talking about her career, and she was like, one day she woke up and everything that was offered to her was a be. [00:18:28] Speaker D: She's like, I want to be sexy. [00:18:31] Speaker C: I want to be be. [00:18:33] Speaker D: I want to be so many more. [00:18:35] Speaker C: Things, but I'm just getting these pretty. [00:18:36] Speaker D: Typical moms so she was always jumped at the chance to bring something that. [00:18:41] Speaker C: Wasn'T just her mom vibe. And a lot of times when she stepped away from horror and not played a mom, it didn't do well. So she kind of knew where her money was, right. She's just like, hey, I'm going to keep. [00:18:51] Speaker D: You got to work. [00:18:53] Speaker C: But there's something just, I think, in this film where Dee Wallace is kind of being able to stretch yourself and they don't dabble in a ton of dialogue. This isn't a movie that's rich with. [00:19:03] Speaker D: Ideas they're necessarily presenting orally, but I. [00:19:07] Speaker C: Think there's a lot of ideas that can be presented to you to make your own assessment about. [00:19:12] Speaker D: And I think in many ways, I think time will still tell on this film, hopefully. [00:19:20] Speaker C: And it won't just be reduced to. [00:19:23] Speaker D: Scared woman in a car who's waiting. [00:19:26] Speaker C: To be saved and then finally has to save herself. Or a woman finds herself in this car because she's a cheater. Because I never felt that when I watched it. [00:19:35] Speaker D: I never feel like she's in the circumstances because she's bad. [00:19:39] Speaker C: I always saw it as, this is the way life is. [00:19:42] Speaker D: Life happens like this. [00:19:44] Speaker B: That's interesting. That's particularly interesting because if we watch this through the lens of a conventional horror movie rules. Right. She's being punished for her infidelity. [00:19:56] Speaker D: Right. [00:19:56] Speaker B: And the fact that that doesn't occur for you. And it also didn't really occur to me as well. But I do feel that that is something that a lot of people viewing it would view through that lens, through the rules. [00:20:17] Speaker D: Right. [00:20:17] Speaker B: But I think through our individual circumstances, viewing this and our experiences with it, even though they're completely different, we both came to view it without that feeling of she's being punished. And I think that's pretty interesting. [00:20:39] Speaker D: Yeah, hello? Yeah, I'm here. [00:20:48] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I agree. And I've watched this multiple, multiple times. I'm aware of. I 100% see what people would say, and I understand. I've never gotten that from this movie. And I always walk away with such. [00:21:07] Speaker D: Deep admiration for Donna and for Dee for both. [00:21:10] Speaker C: So maybe it's what she brings to the character. [00:21:13] Speaker D: For who? Donna. For Donna and Donna, the character and D, the actress. [00:21:20] Speaker C: Admiration for both. [00:21:22] Speaker B: Okay. Yes. Sorry, sorry. I'm so used to hearing D Wallace, that you said D, and I was like, who's d in the movie? I thought you were mispronouncing tad or something, but okay. Yeah. And I think this kind of also. [00:21:40] Speaker D: Really explains why you wanted to spend. [00:21:45] Speaker B: Multiple weeks, like, honoring your mother. Mothers in the world. Your wife, your mom. Like moms in the world. [00:21:56] Speaker D: Yeah, right. [00:21:59] Speaker C: Moms are awesome. And they are also complicated and like all things. Listen, if there's anything I can do, I can explain to you what being. [00:22:10] Speaker D: A mom is. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Is. I did think for the constant listener, you'll know that either Molly or Marika is usually on the podcast. This is your first time listening. These are two women associated with the podcast. One of them is a mother, and one of them is a mother and a spouse. That's not all she is, obviously. She's also the voice of the podcast and many things. She's wonderful. And then the other one, Marika is our co owner of the video store and a spouse and a wonderful and amazing artist. [00:22:45] Speaker D: And we love her. Front woman of the band, Latois. Yes. [00:22:51] Speaker B: On tour. That's why she's not here. But I did think it was, like, particularly funny that our circumstances led us to talk, to start talking about a section about moms, and we have no women to talk about with this film. [00:23:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I love moms. They make me breakfast. Moms are great. What else do you know about moms? [00:23:17] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:23:18] Speaker C: I don't know why I did the accent. I got to stop doing accents. No, that's a fight. [00:23:23] Speaker B: I didn't find it insulting at all. [00:23:25] Speaker C: Okay. [00:23:26] Speaker B: No, I really didn't. [00:23:29] Speaker C: So how does this movie rank for you compared to Teen Wolf? [00:23:32] Speaker D: As far as sweaty. [00:23:37] Speaker C: I would say. [00:23:37] Speaker B: Teen Wolf is sweatier. I agree. [00:23:40] Speaker D: Still a little more sweaty. [00:23:44] Speaker B: So my history with the movie is that I have no history except for the last few weeks. Mickey. Yeah. So I never saw this, and I wish I had when I was a kid, because I think it really would have fucking hit me hard, and it would have left a mark on me similarly to the way it left a mark on you. So you had mentioned this. It's been talking since we've been doing the King Tyrion section. And if you're a new listener, go back, listen to our King Tyrion section. A lot of good films in there. [00:24:20] Speaker D: And. [00:24:22] Speaker B: I was very excited because I've never seen the movie and I'd never read the book, and I've read a lot of Stephen King, and I love watching adaptations. And this is a movie I actually own. A friend of mine gave me a copy of the dvd when he was transitioning all of his home collection to Blu ray at the time. This was many years ago, and I just never watched it and I never read it. And then this was the perfect occasion for it. So I was desperate to read it before we recorded it. And because for Stephen King, a relatively short novel, it's under 400 pages, which is short for Stephen King, I crammed. [00:25:07] Speaker D: Through it, and it probably had an effect on it. [00:25:14] Speaker B: Most definitely had an effect on my viewing experience. I think typically when you read a book, it's best to have a little distance between the book and the film. There's rare exceptions, but I think that's. [00:25:26] Speaker D: A pretty good. [00:25:29] Speaker B: Rule of thumb. [00:25:31] Speaker D: I loved the book, and I'll give. [00:25:36] Speaker B: You my thoughts on the book, and I won't go too much. This won't become a podcast about the book versus the film, but some stuff will come up. I wasn't in love with the film. [00:25:51] Speaker D: Which kind of like, it's always upsetting. [00:25:55] Speaker B: When you watch a movie and you're like, I really want to like this. And then it's like, I didn't have a bad experience. It was definitely entertaining. The film was technically innovative and beautifully shot with some amazing moments and performances. [00:26:13] Speaker D: I did feel that this was like. [00:26:15] Speaker B: A broad strokes adaptation of the book, which was very necessary, especially to get it at like an hour 32. And I understand and can sympathize with the challenges and struggles that the filmmakers had in the time period that they made this. I can sort of view it through. [00:26:33] Speaker D: That lens and not be harsh and. [00:26:37] Speaker B: Just enjoy the things that I enjoyed about it. I will say that. [00:26:45] Speaker D: What the book. [00:26:46] Speaker B: Does brilliantly is fluctuate between all of the characters in the mean Kujo is as much about charity. [00:26:57] Speaker D: You know who charity is, right? [00:26:58] Speaker B: I'm going to code through all the names, and hopefully everyone's familiar with them. But charity is owner's mom, okay? So it's just as much about charity struggle as a spouse and a parent and a woman living in a man's world as it is about Donna's. And it's just as much about Kujo's. Kujo's man as he referred to in the book. It's just as much about Joe and Steve's ego and masculinity as it is about Vicks. [00:27:33] Speaker D: Right? [00:27:33] Speaker B: And it's just as much about Brett and Kujo's growing pains and stolen youth life as it is about know. So spoilers for the books, too, because we're going to get into this. [00:27:49] Speaker D: Because. [00:27:50] Speaker B: Tad in the book doesn't make it, and we'll get into that. It's a big difference. And of course, it's about the town and all of its little characters that play a larger part in the grand scheme of life's unknowable twists and turns, the book is, to me, it's about all of the things unsaid between people in a relationship. It's about how scary growing up can be. It's about imagined monsters and real monsters and about our mortality and our place in the world. It's about missed opportunities and what would have happened if you had just left when you first had the chance. What if you had been a little faster, a little stronger? What if you didn't sleep in? What if you didn't get caught up in a stupid conversation? What if you've been able to grow and understand how truly splendid life is here in the present, in this moment, without having to go through some great tragedy? And I think it's about communicating with your loved ones. [00:28:50] Speaker D: Right? [00:28:51] Speaker B: You only have one life, and you only have a certain amount of time here, and you only have a certain amount of time with the people you love. And the book encompasses all of those things in a really wonderful way. And again, for King to put all of that into 400 pages is a pretty streamlined line story for him. And of course, you just can't fit. [00:29:18] Speaker D: All of that into this movie, but. [00:29:23] Speaker B: You get the broad strokes of it. I think it does a good job of the broad strokes. [00:29:27] Speaker D: And, like, man, when they are in. [00:29:29] Speaker B: The car, they do a good job setting up. We care about these people and their chemistry. D. Wallace and Danny Pinatero is so good. [00:29:46] Speaker D: I could have sworn a, he's so cute. [00:29:50] Speaker B: He's so cute, and he's very talented. It's a hard thing to get from a child actor. His performance, the thing the movie, in my opinion, does better than the book is I sympathize more with Tad. Tad really isn't like a fully developed character the way Bret is. Bret is the boy who owns Kujo. He's kind of just a victim in the book once the film starts. But with the film, I get to see Danny Pintero, and he's so cute and he's so vulnerable and his performance is so visceral in those moments with D. Wallace that I am immediately just endeared to him. And I would have sworn, like, oh, man, this kid must have been scarred for life. But apparently, according to Danny Pintero, he doesn't remember much about this. But he does remember he was not emotionally scarred by, he totally knew they did a very good job of making sure he understood this was all just fun and imaginary, which blows my mind that he would do a take like he does in the car. And then as soon as they say cut, he's like, okay, where's the camera. [00:31:13] Speaker D: Going to be next? [00:31:15] Speaker B: Isn't that crazy to think that I'm, like, tearing up that first time? [00:31:22] Speaker D: He's freaking out. It's amazing, right? [00:31:38] Speaker C: It's a tough thing to watch as a parent the first time you see this movie. [00:31:41] Speaker D: I bet. [00:31:45] Speaker C: I don't know that experience. I didn't watch it first as a parent. I watched it as a kid. But Molly watched it as a parent, and she was. [00:31:51] Speaker D: Those. [00:31:52] Speaker C: The scenes all in the car with Tad are just very. It is granular. [00:31:57] Speaker D: You're feeling it. I propose a remake with Molly, your amazing wife, starring. [00:32:08] Speaker B: And I'll play. [00:32:11] Speaker D: Ted. I'll play Kujo while he's just in. [00:32:17] Speaker C: There cuddled up with you. I'm on the outside of the car banging my head on it, like. [00:32:25] Speaker D: What. [00:32:25] Speaker B: Are you doing with my wife, dude? You're a dog. Your dog. I'm her son. Relax. [00:32:31] Speaker C: I'm only seven years old. [00:32:32] Speaker D: Relax. [00:32:33] Speaker B: Only seven years old. [00:32:38] Speaker C: Give me mouth to mouth. [00:32:40] Speaker D: Mom. [00:32:43] Speaker B: I like this. We should do this. I was going to say there is a reason why it's illegal to have a pet that's not registered with its vaccination tax. And this movie is a perfect example of it. You fucking got to make sure when you go out into the country, whether it's upstate New York or down in the south, you got these dogs living the outdoor life. [00:33:09] Speaker D: It's a good life, but you got to make sure those. [00:33:13] Speaker B: Yeah, and you got to make sure. [00:33:14] Speaker D: Those dogs are vaccinated. Right. [00:33:20] Speaker C: This brought up a thing I wanted to ask you. [00:33:22] Speaker D: Have you ever had a rabid animal scare? [00:33:26] Speaker B: Not. I'm trying to think. I'm sure my parents have, but I was oblivious to it as a kid. This kind of brings up, like I'm going to get into, because obviously I think you do. And I want to get into how this reading the book and seeing the movie has changed my perception on how I view animals in general, which was a very innocent and naive sort of way, not really understanding how fucking scary rabies is. [00:34:03] Speaker D: Right. [00:34:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very scary disease. And if you get it, you got. [00:34:09] Speaker D: To be treated immediately, so quickly, without. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Permanent damage being inflicted upon you. Have you had scares? [00:34:19] Speaker D: I've had a couple in my life, yeah. [00:34:22] Speaker B: Through the military or through your childhood? [00:34:27] Speaker C: One was growing up in Texas. They had to put down a rabid dog. And I didn't have personal contact with. [00:34:38] Speaker D: That dog when it had rapies, but. [00:34:40] Speaker C: Just the stories of my neighbors and friends talking about it always kind of. [00:34:44] Speaker D: Gave me some chills because they are. [00:34:49] Speaker C: Very temperamental, and they are very aggressive, and they are foaming at the mouth. Like, the things they say about, like, it's a very scary thing. And then about ten years ago, I listened to a story of a woman recount getting bit by a rabid raccoon, and it was probably the scariest thing. [00:35:07] Speaker D: I've ever heard told. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Really? [00:35:11] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:35:13] Speaker B: This is a man who has seen war. And this is interesting. [00:35:19] Speaker C: If I remember, I'd just tell you to go listen to her tell a story. I can't remember where I heard it, but I can give you the cliff. [00:35:24] Speaker D: Notes version of it. [00:35:26] Speaker C: She was on her regular trail run. [00:35:28] Speaker D: And at her summer house. And as she ran up to the house, there was a raccoon just, like, in the middle of the road. She thought nothing of it. [00:35:37] Speaker C: She kind of, like, yelled at it and just kept running. [00:35:39] Speaker D: And as she got closer, it hunched. [00:35:41] Speaker C: Down like it was going to jump at her. And she was like, well, this is strange. [00:35:44] Speaker D: And it started chasing her, and it was really fast. [00:35:47] Speaker C: And the raccoon jumped up and bit. [00:35:48] Speaker D: Her leg and then didn't stop there. [00:35:50] Speaker C: It kept clawing at her and trying to get, like, climb up her, and she threw it off, and then it climbed back onto her, and she ran. [00:35:57] Speaker D: Through her screen door into her home. [00:35:59] Speaker C: With the raccoon on her, biting at her face. [00:36:03] Speaker D: She threw it off. Oh, my gosh. [00:36:05] Speaker C: And just started hitting it with everything she could, and it kept coming at her. And they have thumbs. It was able to grab things and work its way around the house. And she finally hit it with a shovel a bunch of times, put it in a bag, hit it a bunch of. She said she hit the thing maybe 700 times, and it kept getting up and trying to come at her. And then when it was finally she had it killed, she was like, oh, man, was this rabid. And so she called the doctor, couldn't. [00:36:31] Speaker D: Get him because she was in the middle of nowhere, New York. [00:36:34] Speaker C: And they're like, you have to get to a hospital. The hospital, 6 hours away. Do you think the raccoon is rabid? She goes, I do think it is. [00:36:40] Speaker D: And they said, you may not make it to the hospital. It's 6 hours away. [00:36:44] Speaker C: And she was like, what? So then they had one of the doctors, whatever, or not doctor, a nurse, anamus. I don't know what it was, but met her halfway as she's driving, thinking that she's about to die, and they're able to give her the shot in just enough time. [00:36:58] Speaker D: She said, oh, my God. After that experience, she sold her home, and she cannot be in the country alone. [00:37:04] Speaker B: Oh, that's so terrible. That sucks. And I can understand that. That's the thing, right? You go surfing and you get attacked by a shark, you either go surfing again or you never go surfing for. [00:37:22] Speaker D: The rest of your life. Wow, that sucks. [00:37:29] Speaker B: I got up, man, I would love to sit down with her and really. [00:37:32] Speaker D: Hear this story full out. [00:37:35] Speaker B: That alone in and of itself, it's a horrific story. [00:37:41] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. And then years after hearing that, we had a moment where there was a raccoon. It was daytime, so if you see a raccoon in day, it's kind of. [00:37:51] Speaker D: A strange thing, but it was daytime. [00:37:54] Speaker C: And a raccoon was in our shed. And I was going out to grab something. And actually, this is the moment that we stopped keeping our trash in the shed, and we just put bands around it, kept it outside because raccoons would. [00:38:06] Speaker D: Get in our shed. And I opened the door, and I. [00:38:09] Speaker C: Heard something kind of, like, click move. [00:38:11] Speaker D: And I looked up, and there was. [00:38:12] Speaker C: Just a raccoon looking at me with. [00:38:13] Speaker D: Its, like, bd eyes in the corner. [00:38:15] Speaker C: And I said, get out of here. [00:38:17] Speaker D: Get out of here. Didn't move. And I was like. [00:38:20] Speaker C: And it would just kind of go. [00:38:21] Speaker D: Kind of had a hiss to it. [00:38:24] Speaker C: And I saw. I grabbed a stick, and I was like, I'm going to pop it with a stick once and let it so it'll run off because they're pretty skittish animals. Once you scare them. [00:38:31] Speaker D: Hit it with a stick. Did not move. [00:38:33] Speaker B: Just like. [00:38:38] Speaker C: It was going to pounce on my fucking face, man. Everything inside me went from, like, get out of here to like, oh, my God, I'm going to die. And I ran and grabbed our neighbor. [00:38:49] Speaker D: I grabbed our neighbor. [00:38:49] Speaker C: Justin said, what should I do? And he came over, and we looked at it, and it was just sitting there like. And I was like, dude, I think it's rabid. [00:38:56] Speaker D: So we called the local police to come. The police? Yes, the police. [00:39:03] Speaker C: Because we didn't know what else to do. [00:39:05] Speaker B: Animal control. [00:39:06] Speaker C: Animal control, right. [00:39:07] Speaker D: But we did, and we called our police. [00:39:09] Speaker C: The police officer came, opened up the. [00:39:11] Speaker D: Shed, looked in, was like, ooh, he's. [00:39:14] Speaker C: Like, ooh, that is strange. That is not the way that Raccoon should be acting. [00:39:18] Speaker D: He said, here's the thing. [00:39:19] Speaker C: We are authorized to take it out. I can take this thing down. He's like, or you can wait a couple. [00:39:36] Speaker D: Oh, my God, this poor Rick. I'm authorized to take it out. [00:39:44] Speaker C: He said, but the responsible thing to. [00:39:47] Speaker D: Do is to get animal control out here. [00:39:50] Speaker C: They'll catch it, and they'll test it. [00:39:53] Speaker D: And then they'll release it properly. [00:39:57] Speaker B: And I was like, assuming it's not rabid. Yeah. [00:40:00] Speaker D: And I said, get animal control on the phone. [00:40:03] Speaker C: And I said, what should we do? He goes, if you're really scared of being rabid, you need to have somebody sitting out here watching it, just to know if it gets out around the town or whatever. We can warn people. [00:40:13] Speaker D: And I said, okay. And animal control came out, took it. It didn't have rabies. [00:40:20] Speaker B: It was just a badass raccoon. [00:40:22] Speaker C: They said, there's a good chance there were some babies around. That's why I wouldn't leave, which made me feel terrible. [00:40:28] Speaker D: Did you find babies? No, I never found any babies. [00:40:31] Speaker B: Because they died in your shed? Because their mom was gone. [00:40:36] Speaker C: No, they didn't. No, they didn't. No, they didn't. [00:40:40] Speaker B: These were little tads. [00:40:41] Speaker D: But then I found out when talking to animal control that because we would. [00:40:48] Speaker C: See helicopters fly by all the time. [00:40:50] Speaker D: At night, and I was like, are those polices? [00:40:53] Speaker C: Do we just have a lot of escaped convicts in my part of Pennsylvania? [00:40:57] Speaker D: I don't. [00:40:59] Speaker C: They're actually. They put out flights all year long, but especially during really warmer weather. [00:41:06] Speaker D: And they throw out these little cakes that are like. They're like the most delicious thing to. [00:41:13] Speaker C: Raccoons and other animals like that. [00:41:16] Speaker D: But they treat for rabies, so they. [00:41:21] Speaker C: Protect the animals from rabies, and they're. [00:41:22] Speaker D: Completely fine for the animals to eat. That's amazing. [00:41:27] Speaker C: So they fly by helicopter, throwing them. [00:41:29] Speaker D: Out all in these wooded areas, hoping. [00:41:31] Speaker C: That the animals will eat them and. [00:41:32] Speaker D: It will help dampen down the spread of rabies. [00:41:35] Speaker B: That's what we need to do with COVID is release a bunch of, like, pop tarts or something. [00:41:42] Speaker D: Yeah, brownie. [00:41:43] Speaker B: That are, like, laced with the vaccine. [00:41:49] Speaker C: It's not a bad idea. [00:41:54] Speaker B: Maybe like a porn magazine. It's like you just read it and you get the vaccine. [00:42:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I promise you, there are celebrities that could tell people that they would show them their boobs if they get a vaccine. [00:42:08] Speaker D: And, like, 50% of that population that. [00:42:11] Speaker C: Doesn'T want to get one will be like, yeah, I'm in. Give me the vaccine. [00:42:14] Speaker B: I'm in. Yeah, you get a lot of people be overvaccinated. [00:42:21] Speaker D: I'm here for my 7th shot. [00:42:28] Speaker B: Mom. [00:42:28] Speaker D: About those moms. [00:42:33] Speaker B: Relating to what you asked me, so I haven't had any rabies. Real quick, though, a pro raccoon story for you. I was reading Marlon Brando's autobiography a long time ago, and he had a pet raccoon in New York for a while. But you can only have them like a monkey. You can only have them for a certain period of time before puberty hits. And you got to get rid of them. [00:42:59] Speaker D: You know what I mean? [00:43:00] Speaker B: Well, not get rid of them, but they're not meant to be domestic pets. [00:43:04] Speaker D: Anyways, so he has this raccoon, and. [00:43:09] Speaker B: His mother is at his apartment, and she's talking with some friends, and she is, like, talking about how sophisticated it. [00:43:16] Speaker D: Really is to have a pet as. [00:43:17] Speaker B: A raccoon and how sophisticated and wonderful it is to have a raccoon as a pet. And in that moment, because raccoons, like you said, they have, like, human hands that are also claws. The raccoon is, like, on her shoulder or something. And as she says this, the raccoon reaches into her mouth, and she has dentures and pulls out her teeth in front of these guests. [00:43:45] Speaker D: She's tried to press. [00:43:52] Speaker B: It, just, like, goes her mouth and pulls out her teeth. [00:43:59] Speaker D: Raccoons, they are hellacious in this area, I bet. [00:44:06] Speaker B: Don't fuck with raccoons. [00:44:08] Speaker D: No. [00:44:11] Speaker B: Don'T feed them. [00:44:13] Speaker D: But, like, no, don't feed. [00:44:15] Speaker B: Call animal control. Put some peanut butter in a cage, get them released back into the wild. Yeah, but I was in Greece a couple of years ago for a little vacation. And how fancy am I? And there are sophisticated, very sophisticated. There are. In the two places I was, Athens and Santorini, there's a fucking million stray cats. [00:44:46] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. [00:44:46] Speaker B: So many stray cats. And they're all around. And I understand what cats are and how they are, what their personalities are like. And it's just like with any animal, you don't know you have to allow it to come to you. [00:45:12] Speaker D: But I was petting these stray, unvaccinated cats, and the naivete of, if one. [00:45:25] Speaker B: Of them had happened to bite me, my vacation would have turned into, fuck. I don't even know if they. I think if you get bitten by an animal that you think might have rabies, it's like, well, we got to give you the rabies treatment. I don't think it's a question of testing you beforehand. [00:45:46] Speaker D: You just got to go through it. [00:45:47] Speaker B: And it's a very painful series of stomach injections, as I understand it. [00:45:54] Speaker C: It's because they can't get the blood. [00:45:56] Speaker D: Back from the lab in enough time to save you. Yeah. [00:46:03] Speaker B: One thing real quick, go ahead. [00:46:05] Speaker D: Real quick. [00:46:06] Speaker C: Are you clicking a pin or slapping a rubber band? [00:46:10] Speaker D: A lighter. Okay, I can hear. Okay, go ahead. [00:46:15] Speaker B: I'll stop. One thing that the book does so brilliantly is you really sympathize with Kujo. There are chapters told from the point of view of Kujo and what he goes getting bitten by this bat and the change he goes through because he's such a wonderful. [00:46:39] Speaker C: Yeah, he's such a sweetheart. [00:46:40] Speaker B: He's a sweetheart. [00:46:41] Speaker D: He's such a wonderful, beautiful dog. [00:46:45] Speaker B: And what a perfect animal to pick. The St. Bernard, the dog that will rescue you. [00:46:52] Speaker D: Yes. [00:46:57] Speaker C: I will say that in the. [00:46:58] Speaker D: Latter watches of the film, the more you feel empathy for Kujo. [00:47:06] Speaker C: I think when you get that initial. [00:47:08] Speaker D: Watch out of the way, or at. [00:47:10] Speaker C: Least for me, as a young person. [00:47:12] Speaker D: Watching it, Kujo was bad. [00:47:15] Speaker C: As an older person watching it, you're. [00:47:17] Speaker D: Like, what shitty circumstances to be under? [00:47:22] Speaker B: And the book really does a fantastic job elaborating upon. [00:47:28] Speaker D: Like. [00:47:29] Speaker B: So Tad dies in the book, but because Tad isn't really like a fully realized character for me, I feel extreme grief for what the parents go through. [00:47:39] Speaker D: But I don't feel a loss from. [00:47:42] Speaker B: Tad, but I do feel that loss from Kujo because he's an know, Stephen King famously says he doesn't remember writing the book because he was going through. [00:48:00] Speaker D: A pretty deep alcoholic stage at that. [00:48:03] Speaker B: Point in his life. [00:48:04] Speaker D: And I think it's interesting that the. [00:48:07] Speaker B: First person to die in the story is Gary, the full blown alcoholic. And the second person die is Joe, the soon to be a full blown alcoholic. And how Kujo turns into this monster and like the noises, how it hurts his know, there's a lot of talk about how the sounds and how it hurts his head and how he changes into this monster, which something you experience when you abuse substances. As we're drinking, as we're saying that, and I slur that word, the monster that you turn into and the people. [00:48:51] Speaker D: Who are victims of it, like your. [00:48:55] Speaker B: Children and your spouse. [00:48:59] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:49:06] Speaker B: How about the opening credit scene to go way back? What an amazing opening credit scene. I love seeing D. Wallace's name before the title card and like that swirl of the blood. [00:49:21] Speaker D: Yes. [00:49:24] Speaker C: The music. [00:49:27] Speaker D: Yeah, the music throughout the film. [00:49:30] Speaker C: But in the beginning, how it lulls you. The film has a lulling quality. And then that's one part music. I think it's also one part they spend time establishing the characters and the relationship for a film. It does a decent job of realize it cannot compete with a novel. [00:49:50] Speaker D: But no, I just think that the. [00:49:51] Speaker C: Music also coming into the film, it's just a really. [00:49:54] Speaker D: Yeah, it's great. [00:49:58] Speaker B: Was nighttime a scary time for you? [00:50:00] Speaker D: Were you afraid of monsters under the. [00:50:04] Speaker B: Bed or in the closet? [00:50:05] Speaker C: As a child, I had real life monsters called Jeff and Chad. My older brothers, are the only thing that scared me at night. I didn't have time to create my monsters because they were in the other room, and I knew the minute I went to bed they were going to. [00:50:21] Speaker D: Try to mess with me. [00:50:27] Speaker B: Well put. [00:50:28] Speaker D: Well put. No, I never had the experience that. [00:50:33] Speaker C: So many people have had where it's like, can you come check the closet? There's something in the closet. I never had that. I realized that must be a very common thing, though, because it just runs through so many stories. [00:50:45] Speaker D: Did you have that? [00:50:47] Speaker B: Not really. Again, like you, I had a lot of siblings and we all. It was like four boys and one girl, and the four boys shared a room, so there's a lot of boys in that room. And, yeah, I was more scared of what my brothers might do to me than like, a monster under the bed, and I was more scared of as a kid, I saw an unsolved mysteries and I was more scared of a murderer breaking into the house. More than a monster. [00:51:28] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Have you ever been around, like, an extremely large. [00:51:38] Speaker C: Plenty. [00:51:40] Speaker D: We didn't have a dog as big. [00:51:43] Speaker C: As, but we had bigger dogs growing up. And then Molly grew up with St. Bernard's. [00:51:50] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:51:52] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:51:52] Speaker C: Our friends have Bernie's mountain dogs, which. [00:51:54] Speaker D: Are pretty big. [00:51:59] Speaker B: According to the commentary I listened to, it was difficult with the dogs because they're so friendly. [00:52:07] Speaker D: The St. Bernards. [00:52:12] Speaker B: I've heard seven dogs. I've heard 13 dogs. I've heard ten dogs. But it was a lot of St. Bernard's. [00:52:20] Speaker D: One was like a lab great Dane. [00:52:24] Speaker B: Mix, and one was a pit bull. And then, of course, like I said, the stuntman in the sort of puppet costume that they used at one. [00:52:42] Speaker C: I know this about Bernie's mountain dogs, and I believe it's the same with. [00:52:44] Speaker D: St. Bernard's, but they are so docile that they will like kids. [00:52:49] Speaker B: They're such friendly kid. [00:52:51] Speaker C: Like, kids can come up and pull their, like, be really rough with them. [00:52:56] Speaker D: And they do not mind one. [00:52:59] Speaker B: It's in the book when tad meets he. He's going for rides with him, on him. Bret's taking for a ride on the dog, and it's a really wonderful. It just establishes Kujo as such a wonderful dog. So it's like such a tragedy. His arc throughout the know, I'm like, on an airplane reading this book, crying over Kujo. [00:53:32] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:53:34] Speaker B: And damn it, I lost my train of thought. [00:53:39] Speaker D: That's okay. [00:53:40] Speaker B: Interesting podcast information. [00:53:44] Speaker C: I found that from just my reading and hearing people, people who really love the book. And Kujo's a very beloved book. I mean, it's a very popular book, obviously, but people who love the book. [00:53:55] Speaker D: Do struggle with the film. Yeah, that's the disservice I felt like. [00:54:06] Speaker B: I created by cramming the book in so close to watching the movie because it was like I literally finished reading the book and then watched the movie the next day. And again, I didn't have a bad time. It was fun. I missed sort of some of the depth, but I understood why it couldn't be there in this adaptation. And I do want to get into the ending at some point. [00:54:37] Speaker D: Well, I will say that when you. [00:54:40] Speaker C: Talk about how he kind of paints with some broad strokes to kind of introduce some of the ideas from the book, I think that there is something. [00:54:45] Speaker D: To be said because books can really. [00:54:48] Speaker C: Ruin movies for you. [00:54:49] Speaker D: It happens to me a lot because. [00:54:52] Speaker C: You come with this knowledge and this love for something, right? And you have all of that baked in, and then you feel like they're not paying off those details and services that make such a wonderful, rich story. But for, like, the idea that Kujo was a pleasant, wonderful, amazing dog, I totally got it in the film with. [00:55:12] Speaker D: Never reading the book. [00:55:13] Speaker C: I completely understood that this was a tragedy for this dog, especially as an adult. As a kid, I was there for the scare, and then I walked away feeling like, wow, this really hit me. [00:55:24] Speaker D: In a really heavy way. Then the relationship of the characters felt established to me. [00:55:33] Speaker C: I understood. I just felt that even though it. [00:55:36] Speaker D: Was broad strokes, it was done in. [00:55:38] Speaker C: A way where it didn't force feed me what I'm supposed to feel, but I got the feelings I think they were going for. And it might be through the multiple. [00:55:49] Speaker D: Watches that it just reinforces my feelings of the original, you know? You know, I. What mean? [00:55:55] Speaker C: Does that make sense? If you watch it sometimes you're like, yeah, I was. [00:55:58] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:55:59] Speaker C: So that could play a major part. [00:56:01] Speaker D: In that as well. Let's not get to the ending yet. [00:56:11] Speaker C: Let's hold off on the ending. There's some things I want to talk about with the. [00:56:15] Speaker B: Well, like, speaking of Kujo, one of the scenes that I adored was Bret. The Bret and Kujo scene, the morning where it's very foggy and Bret sees, like, and Kujo has gone rabid, and Kujo and reading the book, I'm like, this is such a wonderful section in. [00:56:39] Speaker D: The book because the dog is rabid. [00:56:44] Speaker B: And Bret sees this and the dog has its last moments of humanity, of recognizing the last. It's the last moment. Kujo is who he is. He grasps it for like a second and he's like, oh, yes, the boy. He's my boy. And he leaves. He goes away to protect the boy. And I was worried about, is the film going to do this scene? Are they going to do it? Well, man, they got it. They nailed it. You get it. I felt. Did you feel that? You get the complexity of that emotion. And this is the dog. This dog, I think, is used in all the close ups, like when he goes to kill Carrie and Gary's like, I don't give a fuck. Do whatever you want. And he fucking gives him this. Like, Kujo gives him this side glance. Like, motherfucker, I've experienced life. There's the Bret scene, the Gary scene, and then there's a scene with D. Wallace through the car. And that dog is the close up. Give you depth through the eyes dog. [00:58:02] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:58:05] Speaker C: And there's certain parts of it baked in if you were a person who. [00:58:08] Speaker D: Grew up with dogs, right? [00:58:09] Speaker C: So, like, I grew up with big dogs. And that scene where Billy is essentially leaving with his mom and he sees Kujo and he's really worried about Kujo. [00:58:19] Speaker D: And Kujo walks off. [00:58:21] Speaker C: And you, the audience, know that Kujo. [00:58:24] Speaker D: Is rabid as a former kid with big dogs. [00:58:30] Speaker C: It's like there is a bond that is unspeakable. [00:58:32] Speaker D: I can't explain it, right? [00:58:34] Speaker C: But that dog gets you on a level that maybe not another human gets you. And you probably get that dog on a way that other dogs don't get. [00:58:43] Speaker D: That there's something very unspoken between a boy and his dog. [00:58:51] Speaker B: And I'll elaborate on that. [00:58:54] Speaker D: Yeah, go ahead. [00:58:56] Speaker B: Well, just like I think any pet, whenever you connect with an animal, right, whether it's a pet, whether you're a person who works in conservation and you work with captive animals to be able to create a bond with another species, and you can't share a language. It's like a truly profound and deeply moving relationship that you get to have in your life. [00:59:28] Speaker D: Yeah, well, you learn to read body. [00:59:33] Speaker C: Language and you learn to read intricate. [00:59:38] Speaker D: Movements of somebody or something versus having words to mask or having words to explain. So you really have to get to. [00:59:50] Speaker C: Understand somebody more than just hear somebody. [00:59:57] Speaker D: Beautifully put. Much like you and me. Much like you and me. [01:00:02] Speaker B: You're my Kujo. [01:00:03] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:00:04] Speaker C: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. [01:00:06] Speaker D: Thanks, dude. Thanks, dude. You're welcome, dude. [01:00:09] Speaker B: Thank you for being my kujo. I make a lot of noise and you want to rip my throat out. [01:00:17] Speaker D: Just beer cans everywhere. [01:00:18] Speaker B: You're throwing beer cans everywhere? [01:00:20] Speaker C: Constantly. [01:00:21] Speaker B: The basement. That's the basement. It's just a bunch of beer cans. I'm basically Gary Mickey, is this movie pro gun? [01:00:35] Speaker D: Wow. I didn't think is. [01:00:41] Speaker C: Did you feel that? [01:00:42] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:00:43] Speaker C: Really? [01:00:44] Speaker B: Because I wrote is this movie pro gun. And by the end of the movie, I'm like, this movie is definitely pro gun. And I myself, I have brothers, and two of them, for sure, ride in their trucks with guns in the trucks. And as is their right in the state that they live in in the country we live in. So I'm not saying anything negative or positive about that, but I do think if Kujo was to happen to one of my brothers, it'd be over pretty quickly. They have a gun in their car. And also something that is not of the 80s, but definitely of the late ninety s and early aughts is having, like, a case of water in your car. [01:01:44] Speaker D: Right. [01:01:45] Speaker B: I don't know about your parents, but my parents drive around with so much water in their car. And I think it's maybe because they saw Kujo in the. They're like, fucking. I got to make sure this doesn't happen to me. So I got like, granola bars and water in case anything goes down, which obviously wasn't a thing at that time. [01:02:07] Speaker C: So I will say that I didn't read the pro gun thing in there, but I can see what you mean. It's like, I could see if somebody is pro gun. They would be like, this movie's dumb. If she had a gun on her. Be over. [01:02:18] Speaker B: And that's what ultimately, that's what saves her at the end in the movie. [01:02:24] Speaker D: Right? She's got that fucking gun. Yeah. [01:02:29] Speaker C: I don't know. It's like a guess. [01:02:31] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:02:36] Speaker B: I'm watching this, and I'm like. [01:02:38] Speaker D: I'm thinking about you because it's like. [01:02:41] Speaker B: I have, like, an impossible question for you. [01:02:44] Speaker D: Okay. Right. [01:02:47] Speaker B: For those of you listening, for the first time, Mickey has served in the military, and he has seen some extreme situations. And I'm wondering in extreme situations, like what Donna and tatter in, how do you accept the reality of what is happening without panicking? Like, how do you balance acceptance and. [01:03:12] Speaker D: Then formulating a plan without losing it? Right. [01:03:17] Speaker B: Because that's what she's dealing with this whole time. [01:03:20] Speaker D: Yeah. I don't know. Because most of the situations if I've ever been in one that felt even. [01:03:27] Speaker C: Close to stakes that she's in. Those situations were things that I had trained for. [01:03:33] Speaker D: So you kind of go back on your work. [01:03:37] Speaker C: You've done the work. It's like an actor. You've done the works. And I'll just rely on, not your instincts. But when you feel your instincts are. [01:03:44] Speaker D: Betraying you, then you know you've done the work. [01:03:46] Speaker C: So you kind of rely on that, this. Who's prepared for that? [01:03:50] Speaker D: I know when my son, and I'll. [01:03:52] Speaker C: Use this as an example, because if it were me and there were a rabid dog outside the car, I would act differently than if it were me and seven year old Campbell in the car and there's a rabid dog outside. [01:04:03] Speaker D: Right. Because your thing is I have to protect versus I have to stop the threat. Right. [01:04:14] Speaker C: Because there's a difference in protecting and stopping a threat. Because if you go for it and. [01:04:19] Speaker D: You fail, then you've left this person completely open to be. [01:04:26] Speaker B: Yeah, that's her struggle. That's her struggle in this. [01:04:30] Speaker C: That's the dilemma. Right. Yeah. [01:04:32] Speaker B: That's why she doesn't run for the door immediately. Because she has tad to think about. She can't take Tad with her. [01:04:38] Speaker D: Right. [01:04:40] Speaker B: Because she might get attacked and she can't go alone because she might get. [01:04:45] Speaker C: Hears the, I have to believe, because I think that this director is using everything for a reason and we hear the phone ring. I think that she has to believe that. [01:04:55] Speaker D: Okay, well, that's good. [01:04:57] Speaker C: The phone is ringing. I know nobody's in there, but people are trying to contact this person. There will be somebody coming at some. [01:05:03] Speaker D: Point, even up to the end. [01:05:06] Speaker C: I'm sure the book has written this in there. I don't know, but you don't get. [01:05:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it definitely does. There's so many variables that the book is able, that has the time and the space to go into. Yes, but go ahead. [01:05:21] Speaker C: But I feel like we're building this. [01:05:23] Speaker D: Thing where it's like, as all options are starting to fall by, she's now run out. [01:05:28] Speaker C: Time is no longer on her side. [01:05:30] Speaker D: She can't wait for somebody. [01:05:33] Speaker C: She sees the police officer, he goes down. She can't do that. She's been eyeing the bat as a potential option. [01:05:39] Speaker D: So she's doing essentially what any good person would do. [01:05:42] Speaker C: She's weighing every option that she has. And as she gets closer to one option being taken off the table, she's. [01:05:48] Speaker D: Now kind of not obsessing, but she's like going for. [01:05:51] Speaker C: Okay, what's my next move. [01:05:52] Speaker D: That one doesn't work. And when she comes to the point. [01:05:55] Speaker C: Where she's like, she says, I think, I can't remember the exact words, but. [01:05:58] Speaker D: It'S, God save my son. [01:06:00] Speaker C: Someone save my son. [01:06:03] Speaker D: And then she's like. [01:06:04] Speaker C: It's like almost like, fuck, God, fuck someone. I'm saving my son doing this right now. [01:06:09] Speaker D: There's no more time. [01:06:11] Speaker C: And I think that what her journey. [01:06:16] Speaker D: Is, is very relatable to anybody in any circumstances, right? Whether it's, when is the tipping point. [01:06:24] Speaker C: You'Re going to quit your job? [01:06:25] Speaker D: When is the point in which you're. [01:06:26] Speaker C: Like, I'm going to finally do this thing that I've been waiting to do forever. When is the point you'd leave a bad marriage or an abusive boyfriend or girlfriend. [01:06:33] Speaker D: It's like she's coming to that point where she's like, I have to make these decisions. [01:06:39] Speaker C: It's a movie, I think, almost about. [01:06:43] Speaker D: Don'T wait. [01:06:46] Speaker C: Or at least what I take from this movie is that it's like you have agency. [01:06:52] Speaker D: You can take care of this. You don't have to be rescued. [01:06:55] Speaker C: You don't have to be saved. [01:06:56] Speaker D: You know, it has to be done. So do it. [01:06:59] Speaker C: And it mirrors her breaking it off with Steve Kemp, too. [01:07:05] Speaker D: It's like, you can do this. [01:07:08] Speaker C: So I just think that. [01:07:12] Speaker D: If there's. [01:07:13] Speaker C: Something to take away is like, what is a nice moral from the story? I think that's kind of what I. [01:07:18] Speaker D: Take away from it. [01:07:23] Speaker B: How about, man, I just want to. [01:07:26] Speaker D: Say, did I mention the 360 camera moves? Yeah. [01:07:34] Speaker C: From tad to d to tad to. [01:07:36] Speaker D: D to tad to d. Yeah. [01:07:38] Speaker B: So innovative, so beautiful. And again, they shine when they're in. [01:07:45] Speaker D: The. [01:07:48] Speaker B: Danny Pinatero is. [01:07:53] Speaker D: Like really just like any feelings you might have about. [01:08:02] Speaker B: The movie as you're watching it. I feel like the positives for me. [01:08:11] Speaker D: In my experience, I sort of forgive, right. [01:08:15] Speaker B: Because there's so much the love within the story of this film and within the performances and within the innovation and making it. [01:08:25] Speaker D: And it's like, man, fucking. [01:08:28] Speaker B: It's hard. How do you like, especially in this time when we talk about movies being too long and it's like our series miniseries, and it's like, do I really need 8 hours for this story? How do you streamline a story and get everything through? And I think this movie succeeds in many ways. [01:08:57] Speaker D: What are you going to say? [01:08:59] Speaker C: Well, I was going to say, I understand that. I want to hear a little bit of a criticalness from you. [01:09:10] Speaker D: I want to know, is it book related? [01:09:13] Speaker C: Or is it other things that you're. [01:09:15] Speaker D: Like, this is where the story doesn't hold up. Or what is it that gives you. [01:09:21] Speaker C: Reserve on it that stops it from. [01:09:23] Speaker D: Being like something more? Well. [01:09:30] Speaker B: Some of it I feel like I've expressed throughout the conversation. And one of the handicaps I have on it is like, I saw it so closely to finishing the book, so it's hard to. You see Danny as having asthma attacks. And I'm interested if most people see it that way, because Danny is having seizures in the book. He's having seizures brought on by dehydration and heat. There's so much. You know what I mean? There's so much you can fit into 400 pages, especially when you're a great writer. And then I bring all of that, and I'm watching the movie. And ultimately, the thing that disappoints me the most is the last part of the movie. That's where, for me, it kind of is ultimately. [01:10:29] Speaker D: Disappointing. [01:10:32] Speaker B: And we can get into that. [01:10:35] Speaker C: Yeah, let's talk about it. [01:10:37] Speaker B: Before we get into the end of the film. I just want to mention one last thing. Something that's heavily in the book that I didn't think would be included in the film at all is what Vic's. [01:10:53] Speaker D: Going through at work, which is. He's an ad exec. [01:10:58] Speaker B: The red dye. Are you familiar with the red dye in actual history? I believe it's Frankenberry. [01:11:09] Speaker C: No, I don't know about the story Frankenberry, but I know that the red. [01:11:12] Speaker D: Diet is causing people's poop to be red. [01:11:15] Speaker C: So they think the kids stomach. [01:11:16] Speaker B: Yeah. So this is an actual thing that happened. So I believe it was with Frankenberry. One of the monsters. [01:11:24] Speaker D: We got calcula, we got fruit brute. [01:11:27] Speaker B: We got Booberry, we got Frankenberry. I believe it was Frankenberry. And Frankenberry had a red dye in it. And this dye doesn't digest in your. It goes. It's completely harmless, but it goes through your body and you poop it out. And a mother, somewhere at some point in time, when this came out, noticed her son had, like, what looked like blood in his stool, took him to the hospital. [01:11:59] Speaker D: Long story short, they figure out it's. [01:12:02] Speaker B: The red dye in the cereal, right? So it was like a big thing at that time. It's a very interesting story. I recommend you check it out. But I do love how Stephen King sort of rewrites history a little bit and works that into his. [01:12:16] Speaker D: Right. [01:12:17] Speaker B: Because it's like they didn't do anything wrong. Whoever manufactures this red dye. Did the thing wrong, but now his job is on the line, and that plays, like a major part in the book of what he's going through. And then with the affair and everything. And I was surprised that it was. [01:12:36] Speaker D: Even a part of the movie. Okay, pretty amazing. Yeah. Okay, so the end of the movie. Yeah, let's talk about the end of the movie. [01:12:49] Speaker B: I want to know, do we want to start with my thoughts or your thoughts? [01:12:56] Speaker C: I'm more interested in your thoughts because I haven't read the book. I know what the book's ending is. I know Tad dies. I know Stephen King regrets that, but I have not read it. [01:13:07] Speaker D: So, yeah, jump in. [01:13:08] Speaker B: Yeah, that's something that's interesting is that when Stephen King writes, he's always surprised by how things, the twists and turns story goes. He's like, I didn't want Tad to die, but that's what happened. And that's just kind of a wonderful thing of a creative person. It's like you read any of his stories and it's like, I didn't expect this event to happen, but it did. [01:13:32] Speaker D: It just happened. [01:13:36] Speaker B: So anyways, so. [01:13:42] Speaker D: In the book, Donna. [01:13:46] Speaker B: Is at a point where she has to get out of the car, just like in the movie. And when she does, she finds the baseball bat. A big difference is something that I felt robbed of in the film. The ending of the film is she has this amazing, badass, but ultimately futile moment of this face off with this. [01:14:15] Speaker D: Dog, and she fucking beats that dog. [01:14:20] Speaker B: To death with this bat. It breaks in half. She fucking stabs it in the eye. It doesn't die. She just continues. It's not a mistake. Like in the film, the dog pounces on the broken baseball bat. In the book, she has turned into a ravenous beast herself. And she fucking beats this dog to death. And at that same moment, Vic shows up, but it's like, ultimately too late. And she herself becomes this ravenous animal, not letting anyone touch her son. And the paramedics show up and all these people show up and all these men can't hold her down. They can't put a needle in her to get her sedated. She goes through this major ordeal and she has this major epic standoff with the beast, and she comes out on top. And how much of the rabies have taken a hold of her at that time? Dehydration, paranoia, all this stuff that goes into that and how it's gut wrenching that she goes through this. She finally should have gone earlier when I was healthier and more hydrated. But he's dying while I'm dying. [01:15:41] Speaker D: Tad doesn't make it, but ultimately what ends up happening is her marriage. [01:15:50] Speaker B: Their relationship becomes strengthened through it her. And they grow a deeper bond through this tragedy as opposed to growing even further apart. And there's this thing. [01:16:10] Speaker D: If you allow. [01:16:11] Speaker B: Me to read from the book, just something that Vic says. The world is full of monsters, and they were all allowed to bite the innocent and the unwary. [01:16:27] Speaker D: And I was just know dealing with. [01:16:31] Speaker B: The ending of the book versus the movie. [01:16:34] Speaker D: It has all of this depth. And. [01:16:42] Speaker B: Charity gets Brett a new dog. There's all these things that happen that are ultimately very fulfilling to my soul. [01:16:55] Speaker D: And how I write a blue sins satisfying ending. [01:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah, but like, the growth you go through when you go through trauma, what's really valuable in your life despite a spouse cheating on you? What's ultimately more important in your life. [01:17:20] Speaker D: Other than being. [01:17:24] Speaker B: And all of that stuff? And I do feel within the movie that she's kind of robbed of that moment. And I do know that they're setting up like a. [01:17:40] Speaker D: You got to let the kids got to live right? [01:17:44] Speaker B: Even Stephen King's like, in the movie. [01:17:46] Speaker D: The kids got to live, right? [01:17:48] Speaker B: So this is a pro Stephen King note. And I was really distracted when she's giving him CPR. This very dramatic moment. And we're getting ads for cornflakes in Olympia beer. They're prominently placed, and I can't help but notice them during this very dramatic scene. That's like, in my first viewing. And I'm sure as a kid you wouldn't have this experience because you don't notice that shit. [01:18:16] Speaker C: Not even now did I have that experience. [01:18:19] Speaker B: Well, I think that's because you've experienced it throughout your life. But I'm watching it, and I just can't help but notice fucking Kellogg's cornflakes and fucking Olympia beer. And it's really distracting. But that's my personal experience while I'm watching. You know, Kujo comes back, very cinematic. She shoots him, then she goes out the door, and we have a freeze frame ending. [01:18:47] Speaker D: And it's just. It feels. [01:18:53] Speaker B: And again, because I just read the book and I just had this, like, you're allowed to have filling experience. Yeah, I just kind of felt like there's a reason why it just, like, we're freezing here and it's over. Because if we do anything else, it's too complicated. It's going to add to the runtime. It's like we're an hour 32 that's a sweet spot, you know what I mean? So I just felt a little, like, robbed and unsatisfied. But again, my experience is colored by the fact that I just finished reading this book. [01:19:36] Speaker C: I 100% understand that. I've read the stand cover to cover, and I have been waiting for the. [01:19:45] Speaker D: Movie to do justice by that book. [01:19:47] Speaker C: And it has never come. [01:19:49] Speaker D: It is always, like, hard for me. [01:19:53] Speaker C: To watch any representation. I'll watch them, every single one of them, because I'm hoping somebody gets it. [01:19:58] Speaker D: But you just can't do what the book does. [01:20:02] Speaker B: Of course, that's what's beautiful about an adaptation. And I think when you look at, like, the Godfather or fi club, those are the two that come to mind, where it's like, those are brilliant adaptations that stand alone. And they're different. They're so different from the source material, but so wonderful in their own right that I can enjoy both of them. It's so hard to adapt things, especially something like the stand. What is your Mick Garrison stand again? I feel like it's very much like this, where you have your pros and your cons. There are wonderful things about them, but ultimately you're left wanting after reading the book. But I will say this about cat's eye. I think that fucking hits the nail on the know. When you adapt a short story. [01:20:55] Speaker D: I. [01:20:55] Speaker B: Think there's just so much room for interpretation. I think the black phone is a great example of where you keep you. Like, it's always better to be in the position of, like, we got to stretch this out. We got to elaborate upon this and fit in an hour and a half as opposed to the opposite, where you have a lot of depth to it and you can read. I didn't know this was out there. I just figured this out before we talked. But I'm sorry, I'm rifling through my notes right now. The writer, the first draft, Barbara Turner, Jennifer Jason Lee's mother, by the way, who did the first draft. You can read her first draft online. It's available, and it involves more of the subplots and everything that goes on in the books. And I'm very interested to read that. But I also, again, totally understand why the studio is like, now. You can't have all this. This is a bloated movie. You don't have the budget for it. You got to streamline it. You could have ended up with a. [01:22:05] Speaker D: Very cheap jaws type rip off. Right. With this movie. Right. [01:22:13] Speaker B: Because it's like an animal and it's crazy. But again, I think they do a wonderful service to job. And I think its mixed reputation is earned through people being too critical. [01:22:26] Speaker D: And, like, I get why you love it. [01:22:29] Speaker B: I get why people love this movie, and I get why it has endured for so long, despite some of the failings that I personally felt towards it, because ultimately I found it forgiving due to all the positives. Just weigh the negatives for me in this movie. [01:22:49] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't have the experience of reading the book, which I'm actually fortunate in that respect. I mean, I would have been too. [01:22:57] Speaker D: Young to read Kujo. [01:23:01] Speaker C: But you talk about the ending with the freeze frame and how I always kind of received. [01:23:05] Speaker D: That, and especially on this watch, was that I don't need to know. I don't need the movie tied up. [01:23:13] Speaker C: I like that it's self contained. I like that not everything has to. [01:23:20] Speaker D: Be answered in this film. In the book, if it just ended on a freeze frame, which, how would. [01:23:25] Speaker C: You do that in a book? I don't know, but. [01:23:31] Speaker D: That would be a disappointing book. Books are meant to be buttoned up real clean. [01:23:37] Speaker C: You finish it, you leave us with this. [01:23:42] Speaker D: There are epilogues. [01:23:47] Speaker C: My point being is that in an. [01:23:49] Speaker D: Hour 30 movie, I like the idea. [01:23:52] Speaker C: That you can kind of almost make your own. [01:23:55] Speaker D: And I say this of a couple. [01:23:57] Speaker C: Of movies you watch, too, where it's like, I don't mind that it ends. [01:24:00] Speaker D: There and it's not clean. [01:24:03] Speaker C: It's like, now they've gotten through this, but are they going to divorce ultimately? And is that going to be the moment that's going to traumatize this kid, even though he just went through this nightmare? Is this the thing that brings them together again? Is that freeze frame showing that the. [01:24:19] Speaker D: Thing that binds them is tad. [01:24:21] Speaker C: And at the loss of Tad, would that trauma bind them? [01:24:25] Speaker D: That's what the book says for sure. [01:24:26] Speaker C: But this leaves it to where you can kind of be open ended. [01:24:29] Speaker D: A child of divorce would be like. [01:24:31] Speaker C: A child of like that was very affected by their divorce, might watch that ending and be like, now they're back together. Now the real nightmare starts. Whereas somebody who wasn't a child divorce. [01:24:40] Speaker D: Is someone like me. [01:24:41] Speaker C: When I see that, I'm like, this is just reassuring in a way, where. [01:24:45] Speaker D: It'S like, you see, yes, she cheated on you. [01:24:48] Speaker C: Yes, life gets in the way of love. But, guys, you have a son. You made it through this thing. [01:24:53] Speaker D: He's back. You're all together. [01:24:55] Speaker C: This is what it's about. [01:24:57] Speaker D: There's a thing where it says, that's what's always said. [01:24:59] Speaker C: To me, it's been a very positive ending and one where you fill in the blank, I guess. So there's something really great about that because I don't know what Stephen King's intentions was. [01:25:10] Speaker D: I don't know where the source material. [01:25:13] Speaker C: Goes and finishes because it does. This is a complete 180 from the source material. I enjoy the ending and I would. [01:25:26] Speaker D: Say that. [01:25:30] Speaker C: For people who read the. [01:25:31] Speaker D: Book and love the book, that's something. [01:25:36] Speaker C: To take a note. If you're thinking about seeing this movie, it might disappoint. And that's okay. [01:25:41] Speaker D: That's part of content. [01:25:43] Speaker C: That's part of reading and learning and bringing yourself to something. And if yourself has been somebody who just read the book and loved the. [01:25:51] Speaker D: Book, then you're bringing that to. [01:25:53] Speaker C: This is what movies do. You bring yourself to the movie, you. [01:25:55] Speaker D: Meet the movie where it is with. [01:25:57] Speaker C: All the stuff that you have, and. [01:25:58] Speaker D: Then you say, I'm going to, yes. [01:26:02] Speaker C: Be influenced by what I have in. [01:26:04] Speaker D: My own experiences, but also like you're. [01:26:07] Speaker C: Doing, judging it as a film. You said plenty of positive things about. [01:26:11] Speaker D: The film, but you're exploring the hangups. [01:26:14] Speaker C: You have from being avid reader of Stephen King and having knowing where his book went. And obviously it sounds like a wonderful read. [01:26:23] Speaker D: It sounds like a great ending. [01:26:31] Speaker B: It's heart wrenching. [01:26:34] Speaker D: And. [01:26:39] Speaker B: We could continue to talk about the book, but we're not here to talk about the book, even though I've been talking nonstop. [01:26:48] Speaker C: Where does Kujo, the book land on your. [01:26:51] Speaker D: You know, I don't want you to. [01:26:52] Speaker C: Get in like, this is my number one, number two, number three. But is it in the upper tier? Is it in the mid tier or. [01:26:58] Speaker D: Is it in the lower tier? [01:27:01] Speaker B: I can't answer that question at this particular moment due to how fresh it is. But I will say anybody who is a fan of Stephen King, I would say you should definitely check out Kujo. [01:27:13] Speaker D: I don't think it's his best, but. [01:27:15] Speaker B: I think it's definitely worth doing this, doing this podcast and then watching the movie and having to reflect upon all these things. [01:27:28] Speaker D: I was surprised by all of the. [01:27:33] Speaker B: Themes that it brought up within me about life and relationships. Again, how communication is such an important tool. When you're in a relationship with your friend or your lover or your spouse, however you want to define it, communication is key. And when you can't communicate how you're feeling, how frustrating that is and how. [01:28:00] Speaker D: It leads you to do things that. [01:28:04] Speaker B: Maybe aren't serving you or the people around you so well. So. [01:28:14] Speaker D: I think that's ridiculous that this. [01:28:17] Speaker B: Book is a book some guy wrote when he was drunk, and he. It's like, God damn you, Stephen King, for being so fucking talented. You can't, like, if I got so wasted I didn't remember writing something, it would be like you. Were you really drunk when you wrote this? Because it doesn't make sense. [01:28:42] Speaker C: The book is just about people pooping, rich. [01:28:47] Speaker B: No, it's all about the poop, dude. It's all about. [01:28:53] Speaker D: I think that just. [01:28:54] Speaker C: I wanted to add that if I were to ask somebody like myself, who's. [01:29:04] Speaker D: Only seen the movie, and said, what. [01:29:06] Speaker C: Are the big high points of the book? [01:29:08] Speaker D: Here's what I would have said. It's going to be a lot about the advertising agency and what's going on there. [01:29:20] Speaker B: I brought up a lot of the highlights. [01:29:24] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:29:25] Speaker C: No, I'm saying, if I hadn't talked to you about the book and known all the things I did just taking from the movie, what's highlighted in the movie. [01:29:32] Speaker D: Yeah, I would say, well, the book. [01:29:34] Speaker C: Probably a third of it, is just about the ad agency and what's going. [01:29:37] Speaker D: On there, because in the movie, it. [01:29:40] Speaker C: Feels very prominent that to me, or the two settings are him with the ad agency buddy, trying to figure out that dilemma and her being, without him, taking care of all of her, tying up her own loose ends in life, which is breaking it off with Kemp and also getting the car fixed. [01:29:59] Speaker D: The. [01:30:02] Speaker B: Ahead. Understanding the psychology of why she cheats on Vic, despite the fact that Vic is a wonderful spouse and a wonderful father. Understanding that, getting to that. And also, you can't have a good Stephen King story without some weird sexual stuff. When Kemp, when he. Understanding his psychology and what he's going through throughout the story, you spend time with these characters. [01:30:29] Speaker C: I know there was some freaky stuff. [01:30:31] Speaker D: He had his trombone in bed with him. [01:30:34] Speaker B: Well, that's not a thing in the book, but that's efficiency in storytelling. I understand that he is an artist. [01:30:41] Speaker D: Of some kind, right? [01:30:43] Speaker B: He's anti establishment, and he's an artist through a few lines, and him playing the trumpet and the production design of his house, what he does within the community, there are things. But a fundamental difference is Kemp, in the book, would never shake the hand of a person he lost to in tennis. That plays a big part in his character. And also, when he destroys Donna and Vic's house, he goes into their master bedroom. And this is so Stephen King. He's got such a fucking heart on throughout this whole thing. He fucking goes into the bedroom and he masturbates and he jizzes all over their marital bed and leaves a message, like, I left something for, you know. And, like, how Vic finds out about it is he writes him a letter. He writes Vic a letter, and it sends him to his business. And it's like, I fucked your wife. She's got a mole above her vagina. She fucking, fucking good. How about you? I'm abbreviating these things, but it's like. [01:31:55] Speaker C: You kind of sound like you love the character. [01:32:02] Speaker B: Okay, I got to say this real quick. I love him because he's such a piece of shit. And when you're reading it, at the beginning of it, you're like, oh, fuck it. I hope Kujo rips his throat out. I hope he ends up. He doesn't, though. But as you're reading it, you get there before it gets there, and you understand, oh, the revenge on Steve is just his existence. [01:32:30] Speaker D: He's this pathetic, unformed individual, and it's. [01:32:37] Speaker B: Just the karma of his life is the revenge. I don't need to see Kujo rip his throat. Pathetic. [01:32:44] Speaker D: What a pathetic. [01:32:48] Speaker C: Also, now, I'm also speaking of somebody who has not read the book, but it's a great paralleling of, like, here is a nice, docile creature bestruck by. [01:32:59] Speaker D: This horrible, horrible disease that is now. [01:33:03] Speaker C: This ravenous, crazy beast. And then Kemp seems to be his own version of a ravenous beast, but. [01:33:10] Speaker D: Not by the undoing of. Not by something from nature, but just from psychology. [01:33:18] Speaker C: I don't know. I don't know. [01:33:20] Speaker B: Arrested development. The broad strokes would be arrested development. Okay. He never grows beyond a certain point. [01:33:28] Speaker D: Yes. [01:33:29] Speaker B: He can't accept rejection. [01:33:32] Speaker D: I'm now making assessments of a book I've never read. [01:33:35] Speaker B: No. But I think that's a testament to the conversation we had and to the film, again, streamlining as many elements in the story as possible, getting all of that across as efficiently as possible, which I always appreciate. An efficiently told think. [01:34:00] Speaker C: I wanted to ask you this question. Do you think Christopher Stone, you think Kemp, in the movie, she calls him. [01:34:05] Speaker D: Like, the local stud. [01:34:06] Speaker B: Does he strike you as the local stud? I think for the time period that it was made in, yes. I think now standards have changed, and it would be a situation where you would need to spend more time with the character to understand his magnetism, his charisma, that sort of thing. [01:34:26] Speaker C: Because. [01:34:29] Speaker B: What we found attractive in the 80s is different than the odds and the tens and the 20s. You know what I mean? Even in the 50s, it's always evolving and changing. But that actor hold on, let me get to my notes here. Christopher Stone, fucking awesome actor, man. And I think he does a wonderful job. Like, I totally buy that he's that. [01:35:01] Speaker D: Character. [01:35:04] Speaker B: But I do see what you're saying. Through a modern lens, it seems the further time goes by, the more obsessed we are with youth and with being so ridiculously good looking in an unbelievable way. So in a way, Christopher Stone playing Steve Kemp is like a perfect casting because it's more about what he offers. [01:35:43] Speaker D: Through who he is and then the nightmare of who he truly is. [01:35:48] Speaker B: Does that make any sense whatsoever? [01:35:50] Speaker C: Absolutely no. It's saying that there's an essence that we as an audience watching the film from a modern lens might say, well, he doesn't look like the beautiful artist. [01:36:02] Speaker D: Type, but that's understanding that what she's. [01:36:05] Speaker C: Drawn to is his essence or what he portrays or puts out. [01:36:12] Speaker D: He's the local stud because he's got. [01:36:16] Speaker C: An aura around him, an essence that is very attractive versus where now for. [01:36:21] Speaker D: Us, it's surface level. [01:36:24] Speaker C: We live in a world that's very surface level because of Instagram and social media. [01:36:27] Speaker D: And it's know to be the local. [01:36:29] Speaker C: Stud means something very different than what. [01:36:31] Speaker D: It might have meant in that period. [01:36:34] Speaker C: Or what it actually does mean to be the local stud. I've known guys, I'm like, well, he. [01:36:38] Speaker D: Doesn'T look super handsome, but every girl just in love with him. Pete Davidson. [01:36:47] Speaker B: That'S a good casting for like a modern. I do think this is ripe for a remake and that is hard for. [01:36:56] Speaker C: Me to watch anybody play the d. Wallace character. I'm open to it. [01:37:00] Speaker D: I am 100% open. [01:37:02] Speaker C: I think Molly could do it. [01:37:04] Speaker D: But I think if there's any closing. [01:37:07] Speaker C: Remark I have on this film. [01:37:11] Speaker D: It would be simply that this film would. [01:37:14] Speaker C: Not work the way it works on. [01:37:15] Speaker D: Me without Dee Wallace. Can I put into words how much. [01:37:19] Speaker C: I love her and I love her in this film? [01:37:21] Speaker D: I don't think I can because it's. [01:37:23] Speaker C: Something I just feel. And maybe it has something to do. [01:37:26] Speaker D: With ET, maybe it has something to do with just growing up with her. [01:37:30] Speaker C: As just the sweetest mom that will go to the ends of the earth. [01:37:34] Speaker D: To protect her children. [01:37:37] Speaker C: I always thought she was an interesting mom because she always had some kind. [01:37:40] Speaker D: Of not flaw, but she was complicated. [01:37:47] Speaker C: I gravitated much more to that than. [01:37:49] Speaker D: Say, carol Siever or the moms that just seem to have it all together. [01:37:59] Speaker B: She has a lot to work with in this. [01:38:01] Speaker D: Yeah, so anyway, so that'd be my. [01:38:04] Speaker C: Big, like, if my closing remark would. [01:38:06] Speaker D: Be for no other reason to watch this film. D. Wallace for the 40 minutes, it's her and Kujo and Danny. [01:38:18] Speaker C: Danny. Pintero or Pintero, whatever. I can't know how to say his last name. But Tad and Donna in the car against Kujo. [01:38:25] Speaker D: D's performance in that section is just stellar. Agreed. Yeah. [01:38:34] Speaker B: So does it belong in this section? [01:38:38] Speaker D: I wholeheartedly. Yeah, obviously you do. [01:38:45] Speaker C: Is she is the ultimate reason I want a monster squad is D. Wallace. [01:38:54] Speaker D: Belongs here multiple times, by the way. [01:38:58] Speaker C: But for me, as far as D. [01:38:59] Speaker D: Wallace performance, I put Cujo above the rest. [01:39:04] Speaker B: Just like the orgasms that Kemp gave Donna multiple times. [01:39:10] Speaker D: Would she be here? [01:39:15] Speaker B: No. [01:39:23] Speaker C: Did you know that they shot it? [01:39:24] Speaker D: They shot a sex scene for the movie. [01:39:28] Speaker B: Yes, I did know that. Ultimately, they found that the audience didn't. [01:39:36] Speaker D: Want to see that. [01:39:39] Speaker B: They wanted to just understand she did something, they didn't want to see it. Apparently a very beautifully shot film at a piano, or a very beautifully shot scene at a piano. Also, I will say to the filmmakers, they also understood when I was talking about how Donna fucking beats that dog to death and then goes for more once it's dead and just beats it into a bloody pulp. The filmmakers understood. People don't want to see that in a movie. Even if we understand the dog is evil, seeing an animal hurt, especially a. [01:40:19] Speaker D: Like, people don't like it. [01:40:22] Speaker B: John Wick. [01:40:23] Speaker C: No, it's. [01:40:24] Speaker B: That's all I got to say to. [01:40:26] Speaker D: Yeah, uh, we've made a lot of. [01:40:29] Speaker B: Money off of our John Wick rentals. [01:40:34] Speaker C: Did you know that D. Wallace and. [01:40:35] Speaker D: Christopher Stone were married? [01:40:38] Speaker B: Yes. During the time of this filming? During the time of the filming, yes, they were married. I didn't look this up. Wait a second. [01:40:48] Speaker D: Christopher Stone. [01:40:53] Speaker B: Okay. I thought it was Daniel Hugh Kelly. [01:40:58] Speaker D: Vic. No, Kemp. I didn't look this up. [01:41:05] Speaker B: And this is pathetic, but Daniel Hugh Kelly. Did he play the dad in Cat's eye? [01:41:14] Speaker D: We got to look that up. I got to figure that out. Yeah, they're interchangeable. [01:41:20] Speaker B: If they didn't, that's crazy. If it's not the same dad. But anyways, sorry, who do we recommend this movie to? [01:41:29] Speaker D: Mickey, for so many reasons. [01:41:36] Speaker C: I want to say anybody who walks. [01:41:38] Speaker D: In, but I'm not. Okay, good. [01:41:45] Speaker B: Try to be judicious. [01:41:47] Speaker D: Yeah. I am going to say if you have not read the book. [01:41:56] Speaker C: Because I do think that this is a very. From what I've read and what I've. [01:42:01] Speaker D: Heard, that people who love this book. [01:42:05] Speaker C: Are really going to struggle with this film. So I'm not going to walk somebody into that. [01:42:08] Speaker D: Right. I'm going to say you love that book. [01:42:11] Speaker C: You don't have to watch the movie. You can if you want, but. [01:42:17] Speaker D: It. [01:42:17] Speaker C: Really strays in certain places from the. [01:42:19] Speaker D: Book that might leave you otherwise a. [01:42:22] Speaker C: Bad taste in your mouth. [01:42:23] Speaker D: So why do that? So I'm going to go back to. [01:42:27] Speaker C: When I was a child and I'm. [01:42:28] Speaker D: Going to say this is one that you need to watch as a family. [01:42:34] Speaker C: With older kids, with kids that are. [01:42:36] Speaker D: In, I'll say tweens, kids that are in that like they're a little bit older than Tad, but not teenagers yet fully. [01:42:47] Speaker B: This is a recommendation for liberal parents. [01:42:51] Speaker D: Yeah. Why say that again? [01:43:01] Speaker B: I think your recommendation is awesome. [01:43:03] Speaker D: Just like if you're more liberally minded. [01:43:08] Speaker C: Because if you're not. [01:43:11] Speaker D: Because of what? [01:43:11] Speaker C: Because of the sex or because of the cheating wife, spouse. [01:43:15] Speaker B: I don't know. I just don't like conservative people. I think that's a prejudice on my point. I'm sorry. [01:43:20] Speaker D: Well, here's the thing. [01:43:22] Speaker C: I can see what you're saying. I never saw myself, the whole gun. [01:43:26] Speaker D: Connection, but I think it's okay because. [01:43:32] Speaker C: I was a kid being raised by conservatives. And the reason I think the kids. [01:43:36] Speaker D: Should watch it more than any other. [01:43:38] Speaker C: Reason why I think it really is good for child to see this movie is that it puts the child front and center in circumstances that they didn't. [01:43:46] Speaker D: Bring upon themselves where they have to rely on a parent. And you see a parent struggle. [01:43:53] Speaker C: And I think that that's important for. [01:43:56] Speaker D: Kids to see that. [01:43:58] Speaker C: When he says, I want my dad, I want my dad. [01:44:00] Speaker D: And she freaks out and she kind of yells at him over it. That is such a real parent moment that every parent can identify with. But we always apologize for those moments. We always feel guilty for having those outbursts. But for a child to see. Go ahead. [01:44:24] Speaker B: I think you as a parent would feel that. I don't think my parents would feel that. [01:44:28] Speaker D: But you don't think so. Okay. I don't think so. Would your parents? I remember my parents having those outbursts and I do feel like it was. [01:44:44] Speaker C: Usually backed up with like some ice cream or staying up later if I wanted. [01:44:50] Speaker B: I felt like every time my parents. [01:44:52] Speaker D: Yelled at me. [01:44:55] Speaker B: They felt completely give a shit. This kid's a fucking nightmare. It's ruining my life. [01:45:07] Speaker C: There you go. That's what you thought. But in this movie, I have to believe because I know Campbell would definitely agree, that he thinks that the mom in Kujo is incredible. She's like, she fights the dog. In the end, she saves him. She saves the kid's life. But under stress, under immense amounts of. [01:45:26] Speaker D: Stress, she yells at him for something. [01:45:29] Speaker C: As simple as just saying he wants his dad. And I cannot explain this enough to. [01:45:34] Speaker D: Parents or to somebody who doesn't have kids. [01:45:36] Speaker C: That moment happens to every parent. And not under the same. [01:45:43] Speaker D: Where. [01:45:43] Speaker C: Where Molly leaves for a weekend, for a conference or something. And when they're real little, they're like. [01:45:49] Speaker D: I'm missing my mom. [01:45:50] Speaker C: And they're know just freaking out and having a fit over it. When they're usually younger than you're in your mind, you're like, well, I can't get her, can I? [01:45:59] Speaker D: I can't call her right now, can I? [01:46:02] Speaker B: And then you make them watch Kujo and you're like, see, it's not a dog trying to rip your throat out. You should love me. You should be appreciative of what your life is right now. [01:46:11] Speaker D: You don't have any struggles. Yeah, I am about to kill a. [01:46:16] Speaker C: Lovely St. Bernard for you, Mickey. [01:46:20] Speaker B: Mickey has slit the throat of many completely beautiful, like, very friendly St. Bernards just to prove a point to his children. [01:46:32] Speaker D: I'm a good dad. You're a good dad. Yeah, you're a good dad. [01:46:37] Speaker C: I would put this, if you're going to like, there are movies that are much more traumatizing to children than this movie. I'll put it that way. That are kids movies. So I say take this for a Friday night, throw it on the old VHS DVD, blu ray, sit down with your twelve year old, watch a film and talk about it afterwards. Trust me on this one, people. That's my recommendation. [01:46:59] Speaker D: I'm putting it out there. [01:47:00] Speaker B: I couldn't disagree with you more. I think you really should get this on beta. [01:47:05] Speaker D: That's where my disagreement lies, on beta. [01:47:09] Speaker C: Who are you recommending this to there? [01:47:16] Speaker B: Who do I recommend this to? I think if you're a fan of Stephen King, this is definitely worth checking out. Although I'm going to keep a very worn out copy of Kujo in the store and be like, hey, maybe you like reading. Read this. [01:47:38] Speaker C: Read this. [01:47:41] Speaker B: But I would say check out the movie before you see. I feel like sometimes you don't want to see the movie before you read the book. I think this is a situation where. [01:47:51] Speaker D: It'S like, see the movie before you read the book and then go read the book. That's what I'm going to do. [01:47:59] Speaker B: I think you'll have a deeper love for the story, and I don't think it'll affect how much you like the movie. [01:48:09] Speaker D: Does that make sense? Yeah. [01:48:13] Speaker B: And I agree with you. [01:48:16] Speaker C: I was just going to say it's like, a nice entry point into the story. If you've been reserved on reading the Kujo book, maybe watch the movie first and see if you know kind of the story. Now go read the book where. How you're so happy that Ted lived at the end of the movie. [01:48:29] Speaker D: You'll love the book. [01:48:31] Speaker B: And I'll definitely rent this to a lot of young kids. Are you seven? Why are you in here by yourself? Take this movie with you and watch it. [01:48:44] Speaker C: Let me tell you, especially kids that are coming in, they're just drinking. They're not hydrated. They're drinking monsters. [01:48:54] Speaker B: Dehydrated. [01:48:55] Speaker D: How important. Yeah. [01:48:56] Speaker C: If you want to tell a kid. [01:48:58] Speaker D: Like, how important hydration is, parents put on this movie, man. They will drink water so much afterwards. Yeah. [01:49:06] Speaker B: And the importance of gun control. [01:49:11] Speaker D: Yes. [01:49:12] Speaker B: You want a gun on you put a gun on your seven year old child, give them a bottle, like, a. [01:49:18] Speaker D: Case of water, some protein bars, and. [01:49:23] Speaker B: Like, a big ass truck. [01:49:26] Speaker D: I think that, um. All right. [01:49:32] Speaker B: I mean, like, if you had all those things, that's who I recommended to seven year olds who come in here by themselves. And then also, I have a copy of it. [01:49:44] Speaker D: We're like, I'm looking for a monster. [01:49:50] Speaker B: Movie, but where the monster is like a real thing. [01:49:54] Speaker D: Like Jaws. [01:49:56] Speaker B: Like, I've seen jaws. What else do you have to offer? [01:49:59] Speaker D: I'm like. [01:50:03] Speaker B: You need to see. [01:50:05] Speaker D: Hmm. Not as good as jaws, but you need to see it. Yeah. And then watch the mist. [01:50:16] Speaker B: Or have you returned? [01:50:20] Speaker D: That's good. [01:50:23] Speaker B: If you've read the book, watch miss the mist. [01:50:28] Speaker D: Fuck it. [01:50:29] Speaker B: I can't remember. Had something. You destroyed it with your wonderful joke. [01:50:34] Speaker D: And point of view, which I don't mind, because I appreciate it. [01:50:39] Speaker B: I appreciate it. I appreciate you. [01:50:43] Speaker D: You're my vic. Well, you're my kemp. [01:50:57] Speaker B: Thank you so much for listening. Where can people follow us on Instagram? If they want to follow us? [01:51:02] Speaker C: Also on Instagram at the return slot, underscore of horror pod. [01:51:08] Speaker B: And where else might they check out some of our stuff, Mickey? [01:51:12] Speaker C: Well, you can also find us on anywhere. You listen to podcasts. Please rate and review as well as we are filling out our letterboxed as we speak. It should be finished by the summer with all the sections as they are talked about on the podcast. You'll see every movie where they belong and every section. So you can go back and kind of peruse that. And if you want to write reviews on the movies. You can do that there, too. [01:51:37] Speaker B: So thank you for listening and good night. [01:51:43] Speaker D: All right.